Not liking this news at all [Archive]

vittoria

Oct 6, 2008, 2:52 PM

Parts of the article that, for me, got VERY interesting!! with words in parentheses mine.. and bold letters added )

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control (I thought we had the cops for that)or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.( I thought the mission was to get "them" there, so we WOULDNT HAVE TO GET "THEM" HERE!!!! ie. the "terrorists")

Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area.( I thought we had police and park rangers for all of that....Sounding suspicious to me...militarizing this country, AND habeus corpus STILL gone... SHITTY BIDNESS!)

The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

The package is for use only in war-zone operations, not for any domestic purpose.(who declares what is considered a war zone? who will get to do it in REALITY? and since the words "The War on fill-in-the-blank"is just so passe', will ANYTHING get classified as such?)

“It’s a new modular package of nonlethal capabilities that they’re fielding. They’ve been using pieces of it in Iraq, but this is the first time that these modules were consolidated and this package fielded, and because of this mission we’re undertaking we were the first to get it.”

The package includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets. ( Umm... dont we have the police force for that?? I smell "martial law"...)

“I was the first guy in the brigade to get Tasered,” said Cloutier, describing the experience as “your worst muscle cramp ever — times 10 throughout your whole body.

“I’m not a small guy, I weigh 230 pounds ... it put me on my knees in seconds.”(funny how they make police officers go through such things!coincidence? "there is no such thing as coincidence.. only the illusion of coincidence")

The brigade will not change its name, but the force will be known for the next year as a CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force, or CCMRF [pronounced “sea-smurf”]. (aww isnt that cute... but wait... i thought that sea- smurfs were called "Snorks"!!!)

“I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Cloutier, who took command in July. “We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home ... and depending on where an event occurred, you’re going home to take care of your home town, your loved ones.”

While soldiers’ combat training is applicable, he said, some nuances don’t apply.

“If we go in, we’re going in to help American citizens on American soil, to save lives, provide critical life support, help clear debris, restore normalcy and support whatever local agencies need us to do, so it’s kind of a different role,” said Cloutier, who, as the division operations officer on the last rotation, learned of the homeland mission a few months ago while they were still in Iraq.

Some brigade elements will be on call around the clock, during which time they’ll do their regular marksmanship, gunnery and other deployment training. That’s because the unit will continue to train and reset for the next deployment, even as it serves in its CCMRF mission.(that's right... make excuses BEFORE people think about what you just said!)

Should personnel be needed at an earthquake in California, for example, all or part of the brigade could be scrambled there, depending on the extent of the need and the specialties involved.

Other branches included
The active Army’s new dwell-time mission is part of a NorthCom and DOD response package.

Active-duty soldiers will be part of a force that includes elements from other military branches and dedicated National Guard Weapons of Mass Destruction-Civil Support Teams.(i thought the WMDs were elsewhere... at least thats what WE were told!)

A final mission rehearsal exercise is scheduled for mid-September at Fort Stewart and will be run by Joint Task Force Civil Support, a unit based out of Fort Monroe, Va., that will coordinate and evaluate the interservice event.

In addition to 1st BCT, other Army units will take part in the two-week training exercise, including elements of the 1st Medical Brigade out of Fort Hood, Texas, and the 82nd Combat Aviation Brigade from Fort Bragg, N.C.(in the sky? damn! PLUS medics!!!)

There also will be Air Force engineer and medical units, the Marine Corps Chemical, Biological Initial Reaction Force, a Navy weather team and members of the Defense Logistics Agency and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency.(:eek2:)

One of the things Vogler said they’ll be looking at is communications capabilities between the services.

“It is a concern, and we’re trying to check that and one of the ways we do that is by having these sorts of exercises. Leading up to this, we are going to rehearse and set up some of the communications systems to make sure we have interoperability,” he said.

“I don’t know what America’s overall plan is — I just know that 24 hours a day, seven days a week, there are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines that are standing by to come and help if they’re called,” Cloutier said. “It makes me feel good as an American to know that my country has dedicated a force to come in and help the people at home.” (say what?! gee! sounds quite verily like some V for Vendetta shit!!)

FalconAngel

Oct 6, 2008, 4:13 PM

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

It's illegal to station our troops ready for active combat in our own country. Yes, it's sweet that they are training to help us get out of our cars with the jaws of life, and are probably pretty good with sand bags in case of natural disasters, but the part about non-lethal training, etc, makes me worry that these folks are planning to stage another stolen election. Are they training our troops against us in case we take to the streets over the next election? I'm more than a little scared by this. Will these bastards stop at nothing to destroy our constitution and our country?

As a veteran soldier, I can say that any officer that sends his troops out to police our streets, without a justifiable martial law order (i.e. natural disaster or war on our soil) would be subject to courts martial proceedings. This is because of the Posse Comitatus Act.

No military officer, NCO or enlisted man is obligated to follow an unlawful order. That is covered in the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), which is the regulation standard under which the military is compelled to comply.

For Emperor Bush to institute Martial law, there would have to be an extremely compelling reason that would be within the law, otherwise the military has no obligation to follow his orders regarding that particular type of deployment.

Now, in defense of the military doing this, there are instances where the military has to perform such functions, such as in the illegal war and occupation in Iraq (if it had been a legal war and occupation), where that kind of situation needs to be handled by the military under the conditions of an occupation.

There is also the National Guard, who's primary duty is to handle local and national emergencies in each state as well as to function as a reserve component of the federal military. They train for riot control quite a bit. I have had that training. The training is in the use of the "minimum force" concept, that means using the minimum force to quell a situation. Not unlike the police.

Unfortunately, if the federal military is getting mass training in this type of area, then there is something coming down the pike that does not bode well for the American people or the country.

Perhaps Bush is not willing to let go of power just yet, or any time in the future. Why else would he break as many laws as he has?

Maybe he plans a "Jericho" scenario. Life does imitate art, you know.

HighEnergy

Oct 6, 2008, 4:35 PM

darkeyes

Oct 6, 2008, 8:39 PM

Thank you, Falcon. I was interested in what your take would be.

If they steal another election, or that idiot doesn't go back to his village in Texas, I'll be taking to the streets. I don't "carry" but I might just take my skillet in case...

Yeah, Vi, I did enjoy V for Vendetta and appreciated it's themes!
Wotched a documentary on Auntie Beeb tonite bout Lee Attwater... how 2 steal an election in 1 easy lesson..lie through ya teeth...

FalconAngel

Oct 7, 2008, 12:13 AM

Thank you, Falcon. I was interested in what your take would be.

If they steal another election, or that idiot doesn't go back to his village in Texas, I'll be taking to the streets. I don't "carry" but I might just take my skillet in case...

Yeah, Vi, I did enjoy V for Vendetta and appreciated it's themes!

Well, I don't own any guns anymore, but I do own knives, swords, quarterstaves and all of my manuals from the Army.

And I know which side I'll be fighting for; It most certainly will not be for the dictator who thinks he is above the law.

binectar

Oct 7, 2008, 10:43 AM

Please, please, please, please, PLEASE! I've tried with all my might not to get too political in this forum, but I simply can't stand the incessant whining, and misleading statements of all the conspiracy theorists!

I'm sure you're a very nice woman my dear, bu I'm equally sure you were among the first to criticize the government (and one man in particular) for a too slow response to Katrina!

Why don't we all just try to contribute, rather than detract? I think there are truly some (too many) people in this country who gladly go through life with blinders on. Do you really want to lower the standards of our country? We're in real danger of becoming a third-world nation if we continue to do so! I promise: all you whiners will criticize EXACTLY what you asked for if that time comes!

Bluebiyou

Oct 7, 2008, 11:05 AM

You know the Galactic federation of light is scheduled for a week from today, OCT14. Perhaps Bush is preparing for those who riot when the aliens reveal themselves!

AFTER9

Oct 7, 2008, 12:51 PM

void()

Oct 7, 2008, 1:19 PM

"The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them."

"Butch" Robert Redford made a damn fine movie a while back. _Last Castle_ is the title of it. If you're squeamish don't watch it. There are graphic portrayals of violence, and nerve wracking themes of mature ethics and morals. And it is a reflection of what I foresee coming down the pipe, real soon.

Might want to also look up the Stafford Experiment. It was a psychology lesson, that , well I won't spoil it. Let it suffice to say that in the end we can not go down that road. But it seems we are. Scary? Yes.

FalconAngel

Oct 7, 2008, 1:26 PM

Speaking from the experience of a former soldier like another poster mentioned there are safeguards in place against abuses of power (UCMJ etc.)
While I don't like this move it doesn;t really phase me too bad either.
On the other hand the explosive growth of private contractors such as Blacqwater and all these realitvly new agencies such as TSA,ICE< Homeland Security it al seems very Oreilwann,Big Brother like or whatever term comes to mind.

Those things worry me as well.

There are a lot of vets in this country who agree with what we have been saying and most career civilians do not know what a soldier's oath entails.

We do not swear fealty to the president, or even to our country, but to defend the Constitution from all invaders; foreign or domestic. That includes a built in prevention from compliance with illegal or unconstitutional orders, or even moving against the President, if he fails to support and defend the constitution (and subsequently, the rights of the people) as his oath of office compells him to do.

Here is a fun fact;

Did you know that any person who holds office, such as a judge, politician, et al, who has sworn to uphold the constitution or constitutional rights of the people, and has failed to do so, according to at least one US Supreme Court justice, has committed an act of treason?

Like many vets, I took my oath of enlistment very seriously and I still abide by it, even though I have, long since, left the military.

But the subject of this thread is the very reason that we must be vigilant against traitors like Bush. Once a law is made, it is almost impossible to abolish it, unless it becomes completely unnecessary, like a few of the horse-related laws from the 1800's.

The unconstitutional laws have to be taken to the US Supreme Court to get abolished. Or there must be such an outcry from the people that the laws must be abolished, such as the old "Jim Crow" laws in the south.

But we need to watch our politicians and hold them accountable. we have many that are still in office that voted in favor of the Patriot Act. Those politicians need to be held accountable for removing some of our rights.

That one law took us closer to a fascist nation than any other law ever made in this country.
Look at history; recent history of Germany. 1937-1945 to be precise. Look at the steps that Hitler took after taking power and how he whittled away human rights, instituted secret "police" units that were above the law and eventually sent his nation spiraling to destruction.
Bush's Grandfather funneled money to the Nazis, btw. His bank was shut down when the fed found out.

The point is that vigilance against this sort of thing is what we need.

We have many of our problems today because of a lack of vigilance on the part of our people. We have allowed tyrants and right wing religious nuts to take over.
That is formula for societal collapse.

darkeyes

Oct 9, 2008, 7:28 AM

Agreed. It seems like every new US election conspiracy theories about politics bring out crazy people who should be on bipolar meds and in lots of therapy or in a mental hospital out the woodwork.
So ther no such things as conspiracies in politics huh? Try tellin that 2 politicians. They so paranoid they c conspiracy on every street corner...

.. but in the wider world?? Wetha ya like it or not conspiracy exists.. not always werya think an ya don always find out bout em, but they ther..not only crazies c em.. cos the history a politics in particular an the world in general is rancid wiv consiracy.. if ne thin ya need 2 b on meds ifya dismiss that glarinly obvious fact..

Doggie_Wood

Oct 9, 2008, 8:59 AM

Those things worry me as well.

But the subject of this thread is the very reason that we must be vigilant against traitors like Bush.

In your opinion - blame one for the sins of many

Bush's Grandfather funneled money to the Nazis, btw. His bank was shut down when the fed found out.

I have done a little research on this aspect of thought and found no conclusional proof. Would you care to provide the source for this last statement? Or is it just 'hear-say' evidence?

We have many of our problems today because of a lack of vigilance on the part of our people. We have allowed tyrants and right wing religious nuts to take over (and the left wing lazy zealots as well).

Falcon - I generally agree with your way of thinking - however, tyrates and accusations of this type could well lead to civil unrest.
I, also a veteran, took my oath of allegiance very seriously as well. My Commander in Chief is just that. The big dog on the block. The 'Alpha' dog.
Be he Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Popcorn Carter or who-ever.

I agree that our government is becoming too big for it's britches and I do foresee civil unrest in the future as things continue to unfold as they are now.

But I do not see this coming into play until something akin to removal of the "2nd" to spark the fire (and a wild-fire it will be).

So, to conclude, speak your mind, I really don't care.
Voice your opinion, but don't present it as fact with out proof or verifiable resources.

As a vet, I will obey all due signs and summons presented to me by my Commander in Chief, lest finding that the order is in fact unlawfully administered.

:2cents:

:doggie:

darkeyes

Oct 9, 2008, 10:13 AM

Falcon - I generally agree with your way of thinking - however, tyrates and accusations of this type could well lead to civil unrest.
I, also a veteran, took my oath of allegiance very seriously as well. My Commander in Chief is just that. The big dog on the block. The 'Alpha' dog.
Be he Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Popcorn Carter or who-ever.

I agree that our government is becoming too big for it's britches and I do foresee civil unrest in the future as things continue to unfold as they are now.

But I do not see this coming into play until something akin to removal of the "2nd" to spark the fire (and a wild-fire it will be).

So, to conclude, speak your mind, I really don't care.
Voice your opinion, but don't present it as fact with out proof or verifiable resources.

As a vet, I will obey all due signs and summons presented to me by my Commander in Chief, lest finding that the order is in fact unlawfully administered.

:2cents:

:doggie:Have left wing lazy zealots taken over your country Doggie? Or mine? Are they likely to? If they were lazy they wouldn't come near to taking over a burger joint far less a nation..so I will let that pass...

I detest oaths of allegiance. I find them something which has been used for one thing and one thing only... to tie peoples hands, close their minds and make them subservient to a higher authority. They are tools of state, religion, corporate or any other body which wants to ensure that it can have its way with and even own with souls of humankind....the tools of brainwashing and shaping humanity in the most disgusting sense. They are responsible for many of the most base acts of our kind. Oaths of allegiance enable powerful and often unscrupulous, dare I say evil people to win and maintain power, to make decent human beings undertake actions which their heart and mind tell them is obscene.. or even just plainly wrong. They are a weapon of patriotism designed not to win our loyalty but control it. No Doggie, such oaths are not for me..

My loyalty is to my world and all the life it contains. I need no oath to pledge my life and soul to its well being. I give of myself because I believe it is how human beings should act and behave. We are guardians of our world not its owners, and should act freely and responsibly to ensure it prospers and survives. As the one sentient species we know of in this world we should not need an oath to benefit as much as we are able, that world and all that it contains. Political and corporate and other powerful human beings swear oaths and think nothing of casting them to the wind when it suits them. Yet God help you or I or any ordinary citizen should we even think of breaking our word no matter the morality involved.

I have loyalty to my country in as much as I love the place and want nothing but good for it. No not just Scotland, but all of the United Kingdom. It is where I was born and where I live, and will live until my dying day. However I would no more swear an oath of allegiance to queen and country than I could cut your throat. I have often written about "my king and country right or wrong" and condemned the whole philosophy. It is a credo I have never accepted and never shall. It is obscene and morally unjustified. Better to be "traitor" to my country than traitor to myself. Better "traitor" to the land of my birth and its people, than traitor to the greater good of humanity and the world at large. It is not relevant in any case, because whether or not I swore an oath, and my country believed me traitor, I would be apprehended, tried and punished if found guilty with full force of law. At least they can't hang me any more for it.

Would I "betray" my country? I have never had any doubt of it in the sense that my country may believe my actions to be treacherous, but if I truly believed in the cause and reasons for those actions being right and just, and am being true to myself and the principles in which I passionately believe.. then I do not accept those actions as treasonous.

I am uninterested in whether an order from a higher authority is legal or otherwise. If it is morally unjustified and contrary to my beliefs, then I could not.. and would not act on that order... and may, if I believed it necessary actively work to undermine it. If that is treason..so be it... but not in my book..:)

HighEnergy

Oct 9, 2008, 10:25 AM

BTW, Posse Comitatus is no more. Here's a link, and here's the copy for those not wanting to click elsewhere.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20975.htm

Also, my sister has brought something to my attention. It seems "That One" is the new code word for the N word, which McCain called Obama during the debate. It wasn't on my radar at the time, but lots of folks didn't miss it.

youtube.com/watch?v=fGiYyYAAGc4

Then there's the news that a couple of the real estate closings haven't happened in our office because the bank couldn't fund the mortgage.

Oh, and don't forget that GM was going to close the plant in our town in 2010. But now they've decided to close it on December 23 of this year. The folks who didn't take the buy out this summer and now screwed.

Call me crazy if you want, as I know many of you will, but our country is ripe for riots.

Thousands of Troops Are Deployed on U.S. Streets Ready to Carry Out "Crowd Control"

Members of Congress were told they could face martial law if they didn't pass the bailout bill. This will not be the last time.

By Naomi Wolf

08/10/08 "AlterNet" -- Background: the First Brigade of the Third Infantry Division, three to four thousand soldiers, has been deployed in the United States as of October 1. Their stated mission is the form of crowd control they practiced in Iraq, subduing "unruly individuals," and the management of a national emergency. I am in Seattle and heard from the brother of one of the soldiers that they are engaged in exercises now. Amy Goodman reported that an Army spokesperson confirmed that they will have access to lethal and non lethal crowd control technologies and tanks.

George Bush struck down Posse Comitatus, thus making it legal for military to patrol the U.S. He has also legally established that in the "War on Terror," the U.S. is at war around the globe and thus the whole world is a battlefield. Thus the U.S. is also a battlefield.

He also led change to the 1807 Insurrection Act to give him far broader powers in the event of a loosely defined "insurrection" or many other "conditions" he has the power to identify. The Constitution allows the suspension of habeas corpus -- habeas corpus prevents us from being seized by the state and held without trial -- in the event of an "insurrection." With his own army force now, his power to call a group of protesters or angry voters "insurgents" staging an "insurrection" is strengthened.

U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman of California said to Congress, captured on C-Span and viewable on YouTube, that individual members of the House were threatened with martial law within a week if they did not pass the bailout bill:

"The only way they can pass this bill is by creating and sustaining a panic atmosphere. … Many of us were told in private conversations that if we voted against this bill on Monday that the sky would fall, the market would drop two or three thousand points the first day and a couple of thousand on the second day, and a few members were even told that there would be martial law in America if we voted no."
If this is true and Rep. Sherman is not delusional, I ask you to consider that if they are willing to threaten martial law now, it is foolish to assume they will never use that threat again. It is also foolish to trust in an orderly election process to resolve this threat. And why deploy the First Brigade? One thing the deployment accomplishes is to put teeth into such a threat.

I interviewed Vietnam veteran, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and patriot David Antoon for clarification:

"If the President directed the First Brigade to arrest Congress, what could stop him?"

"Nothing. Their only recourse is to cut off funding. The Congress would be at the mercy of military leaders to go to them and ask them not to obey illegal orders."

"But these orders are now legal?'"

"Correct."

"If the President directs the First Brigade to arrest a bunch of voters, what would stop him?"

"Nothing. It would end up in courts but the action would have been taken."

"If the President directs the First Brigade to kill civilians, what would stop him?"

"Nothing."

"What would prevent him from sending the First Brigade to arrest the editor of the Washington Post?"

"Nothing. He could do what he did in Iraq -- send a tank down a street in Washington and fire a shell into the Washington Post as they did into Al Jazeera, and claim they were firing at something else."

"What happens to members of the First Brigade who refuse to take up arms against U.S. citizens?"

"They'd probably be treated as deserters as in Iraq: arrested, detained and facing five years in prison. In Iraq a study by Ann Wright shows that deserters -- reservists who refused to go back to Iraq -- got longer sentences than war criminals."

"Does Congress have any military of their own?"

"No. Congress has no direct control of any military units. The Governors have the National Guard but they report to the President in an emergency that he declares."

"Who can arrest the President?"

"The Attorney General can arrest the President after he leaves or after impeachment."

[Note: Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi has asserted it is possible for District Attorneys around the country to charge President Bush with murder if they represent districts where one or more military members who have been killed in Iraq formerly resided.]

"Given the danger do you advocate impeachment?"

"Yes. President Bush struck down Posse Comitatus -- which has prevented, with a penalty of two years in prison, U.S. leaders since after the Civil War from sending military forces into our streets -- with a 'signing statement.' He should be impeached immediately in a bipartisan process to prevent the use of military forces and mercenary forces against U.S. citizens"

"Should Americans call on senior leaders in the Military to break publicly with this action and call on their own men and women to disobey these orders?"

"Every senior military officer's loyalty should ultimately be to the Constitution. Every officer should publicly break with any illegal order, even from the President."

"But if these are now legal. If they say, 'Don't obey the Commander in Chief,' what happens to the military?"

"Perhaps they would be arrested and prosecuted as those who refuse to participate in the current illegal war. That's what would be considered a coup."

"But it's a coup already."

"Yes."

Naomi Wolf is the author of Give Me Liberty (Simon and Schuster, 2008), the sequel to the New York Times best-seller The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot (Chelsea Green, 2007).

void()

Oct 9, 2008, 11:16 AM

Agreed. It seems like every new US election conspiracy theories about politics bring out crazy people who should be on bipolar meds and in lots of therapy or in a mental hospital out the woodwork.

The coffee pot says to the coffee, "You're black, shut up about it." The coffee gives due consideration and stays quiet a bit. Then it realizes something patently obvious.

"You contain me and are just black, Mr. Pot. Shut up about it."

Mind, I'm not attacking you but an idea you've presented. It is an idea that normalcy exists in our world, that somehow there is a standard variant. Those offering a different view get ostracized and shunned by your new religion, arm chair psychology.

Here's a clever notion for you to maul over. Perhaps, us crazy folks have it right and all the rest of you 'standard variant' people get slaughtered wholesale in the name of eugenics. Not to propagate 'gloom and doom' here but look around at our world a moment.

It is an increasingly tired world. And it is becoming clear it is a world that has grown displeased with the human race on whole. There is debate over what part, if any, we have played in that occurring. A point remains we have global climate changes happening and threatening our race.

And our race doesn't seem to 'get it'. We create two distinctions, those with and those without. Those with never get ostracized and shunned for leading us to roaming food shortages, lose of natural resources, ethnic cleansing, paranoia driven suicide bombers and so on. No, in fact we praise them and give them medals, titles and insinuate them further into the happy little 'standard variant'.

Perhaps, a dose of insanity, or rather a few different ways to view our perceptions, is healthy. Frankly within the recent past I've faced contemplation of suicide, due to all the and forgive generalizing, shit going on the world. All of it and a constant nagging voice inside saying "you're black, shut up about it", gets to you. Now, I say to hell with trying to meet the 'standard variant''s definitions and expectations.

And guess what? I no longer contemplate suicide. And I believe that I am 'good enough' just as I am. When it comes down to it, I sleep well and can meet the eyes of the guy in the mirror dead on. No, a saint by any means I'm not. But just because I'm black doesn't mean a thing.

Note to clarify here. I am not actually physically black. Probably am the most Anglo little gypsy ( and that's a nasty word ) boy this side of Cheshire. I simply extended the metaphor for allusion, or an illusion in order to express a point. I actually have a "brother", who was born three days after me to another mother, who is black. I grew up color blind, we're all gray. Or maybe it's red? Nah it's got to be blue.

But see, your ostracizing and shunning don't really matter. It merely serves to offer a justification to pity you, if I in fact could pity. I may feel compassion and empathize with you, though I really have trouble doing so, over here on the other side of the world from you. See, I got 'put in my place' by your use of the crazy label. It's a shame you're so alone.

Good bye Mr. Pot, at least folks drink me.

vitt&cho

Oct 9, 2008, 5:10 PM

o my!!! :eek2:

BTW, Posse Comitatus is no more. Here's a link, and here's the copy for those not wanting to click elsewhere.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20975.htm

Also, my sister has brought something to my attention. It seems "That One" is the new code word for the N word, which McCain called Obama during the debate. It wasn't on my radar at the time, but lots of folks didn't miss it.

youtube.com/watch?v=fGiYyYAAGc4

Then there's the news that a couple of the real estate closings haven't happened in our office because the bank couldn't fund the mortgage.

Oh, and don't forget that GM was going to close the plant in our town in 2010. But now they've decided to close it on December 23 of this year. The folks who didn't take the buy out this summer and now screwed.

Call me crazy if you want, as I know many of you will, but our country is ripe for riots.

Thousands of Troops Are Deployed on U.S. Streets Ready to Carry Out "Crowd Control"

Members of Congress were told they could face martial law if they didn't pass the bailout bill. This will not be the last time.

By Naomi Wolf

08/10/08 "AlterNet" -- Background: the First Brigade of the Third Infantry Division, three to four thousand soldiers, has been deployed in the United States as of October 1. Their stated mission is the form of crowd control they practiced in Iraq, subduing "unruly individuals," and the management of a national emergency. I am in Seattle and heard from the brother of one of the soldiers that they are engaged in exercises now. Amy Goodman reported that an Army spokesperson confirmed that they will have access to lethal and non lethal crowd control technologies and tanks.

George Bush struck down Posse Comitatus, thus making it legal for military to patrol the U.S. He has also legally established that in the "War on Terror," the U.S. is at war around the globe and thus the whole world is a battlefield. Thus the U.S. is also a battlefield.

He also led change to the 1807 Insurrection Act to give him far broader powers in the event of a loosely defined "insurrection" or many other "conditions" he has the power to identify. The Constitution allows the suspension of habeas corpus -- habeas corpus prevents us from being seized by the state and held without trial -- in the event of an "insurrection." With his own army force now, his power to call a group of protesters or angry voters "insurgents" staging an "insurrection" is strengthened.

U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman of California said to Congress, captured on C-Span and viewable on YouTube, that individual members of the House were threatened with martial law within a week if they did not pass the bailout bill:

"The only way they can pass this bill is by creating and sustaining a panic atmosphere. … Many of us were told in private conversations that if we voted against this bill on Monday that the sky would fall, the market would drop two or three thousand points the first day and a couple of thousand on the second day, and a few members were even told that there would be martial law in America if we voted no."
If this is true and Rep. Sherman is not delusional, I ask you to consider that if they are willing to threaten martial law now, it is foolish to assume they will never use that threat again. It is also foolish to trust in an orderly election process to resolve this threat. And why deploy the First Brigade? One thing the deployment accomplishes is to put teeth into such a threat.

I interviewed Vietnam veteran, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and patriot David Antoon for clarification:

"If the President directed the First Brigade to arrest Congress, what could stop him?"

"Nothing. Their only recourse is to cut off funding. The Congress would be at the mercy of military leaders to go to them and ask them not to obey illegal orders."

"But these orders are now legal?'"

"Correct."

"If the President directs the First Brigade to arrest a bunch of voters, what would stop him?"

"Nothing. It would end up in courts but the action would have been taken."

"If the President directs the First Brigade to kill civilians, what would stop him?"

"Nothing."

"What would prevent him from sending the First Brigade to arrest the editor of the Washington Post?"

"Nothing. He could do what he did in Iraq -- send a tank down a street in Washington and fire a shell into the Washington Post as they did into Al Jazeera, and claim they were firing at something else."

"What happens to members of the First Brigade who refuse to take up arms against U.S. citizens?"

"They'd probably be treated as deserters as in Iraq: arrested, detained and facing five years in prison. In Iraq a study by Ann Wright shows that deserters -- reservists who refused to go back to Iraq -- got longer sentences than war criminals."

"Does Congress have any military of their own?"

"No. Congress has no direct control of any military units. The Governors have the National Guard but they report to the President in an emergency that he declares."

"Who can arrest the President?"

"The Attorney General can arrest the President after he leaves or after impeachment."

[Note: Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi has asserted it is possible for District Attorneys around the country to charge President Bush with murder if they represent districts where one or more military members who have been killed in Iraq formerly resided.]

"Given the danger do you advocate impeachment?"

"Yes. President Bush struck down Posse Comitatus -- which has prevented, with a penalty of two years in prison, U.S. leaders since after the Civil War from sending military forces into our streets -- with a 'signing statement.' He should be impeached immediately in a bipartisan process to prevent the use of military forces and mercenary forces against U.S. citizens"

"Should Americans call on senior leaders in the Military to break publicly with this action and call on their own men and women to disobey these orders?"

"Every senior military officer's loyalty should ultimately be to the Constitution. Every officer should publicly break with any illegal order, even from the President."

"But if these are now legal. If they say, 'Don't obey the Commander in Chief,' what happens to the military?"

"Perhaps they would be arrested and prosecuted as those who refuse to participate in the current illegal war. That's what would be considered a coup."

"But it's a coup already."

"Yes."

Naomi Wolf is the author of Give Me Liberty (Simon and Schuster, 2008), the sequel to the New York Times best-seller The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot (Chelsea Green, 2007).

**Peg**

Oct 9, 2008, 7:37 PM

You know the Galactic federation of light is scheduled for a week from today, OCT14. Perhaps Bush is preparing for those who riot when the aliens reveal themselves!

ok that explains a LOT ! the eve of our Federal election here in Canada.... ooo wee ooo

void()

Oct 10, 2008, 2:24 AM

"But it's a coup already."

"Yes."

"Defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights against all enemies both foreign and domestic"

That phrase has been stuck in my head since 2000, actually since 1996, but 2000 illuminated it in big neon flashing warning sign letters. Now, here we are with a roving battalion on our soil fighting an illegal war. This is no longer America.

No longer the America I vowed to protect. No longer the America where I could pursue whatever provided happiness. No longer America that stands up and does the right thing by not torturing its enemies, and sets an example for the world in so not doing. No longer America.

"Drove my Chevy to the levy but the levy was dry ..."

12voltman59

Oct 10, 2008, 6:56 AM

I didn't see any of the posts of "OrlandoCocksucker"-but Void had captured his quote about bipolar disorder and meds---well that goes back to the point I have made in numerous posts about our troll---I have no doubt it is the same person---and that this person is bipollar---so he knows about being under control of his situation then going off them----either by not taking them or having his body chemistry change so that the meds didn't work as well.

In one of his guises---the troll dissed my rant about the troll having mental troubles and such and questioned whether I had any real experience wtih this--well I did have my training in college in this area and later when I was a probation officer--I actually got the best education on bipolar disorder and what it is like from a lady whose case I had inherited when I first became a probation/parole officer in Florida---

Everyone here will find her criminal charge to be of interest---she had cut the balls off her then boyfriend with a straight razor when she found him in bed with another woman----

She was a very intelligent person----but she had bipolar disorder and she told me in great detail what she experienced with her condition--how it clouds the mind-and such--and how one fixates on things----she also said that she could tell when her meds were starting to not work so good anymore--she would come tell me she had to go into the hospital so they could rejigger her meds to bring her back into control.

I won't go too much more into this subject since I am off topic--I just post this to show that our troll--once again---by little tidbits of what he says--reveals much about himself---and his once again mentioning biplolar disorder and taking meds for that condition--tells us more about him than anything else---

So I go back to my big post of a few weeks ago about his mental state---he is an intelligent person---who most likely has this condition himself.

Along with this woman--I had many people with mental instabilites--numerous Vietnam vets with PTSD---and many other cases that were most interesting

Sorry to be off topic--but like I said--I wanted to direct attention to something the troll said that did not get deleted----I find it to be one more piece of the puzzle of our (un)friendly neighborhood troll.

hudson9

Oct 10, 2008, 3:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconAngel View Post
Those things worry me as well.

But the subject of this thread is the very reason that we must be vigilant against traitors like Bush.

In your opinion - blame one for the sins of many

Bush's Grandfather funneled money to the Nazis, btw. His bank was shut down when the fed found out.

I have done a little research on this aspect of thought and found no conclusional proof. Would you care to provide the source for this last statement? Or is it just 'hear-say' evidence?

This took me about 30 seconds on Google:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
<excerpt> George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy... [end excerpt]

http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm
[excerpt]Documents in National Archives Prove
George W. Bush's Grandfather Traded
with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor
By John Buchanan
Exclusive to The New Hampshire Gazette
10-10-3

WASHINGTON -- After 60 years of inattention and even denial by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926 until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush and his "enemy national" partners.

The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, tried to conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s, personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion of democratic principle and German law.

Furthermore, the declassified records demonstrate that Bush and his associates, who included E. Roland Harriman, younger brother of American icon W. Averell Harriman, and George Herbert Walker, President Bush's maternal great-grandfather, continued their dealings with the German industrial tycoon for nearly a year after the U.S. entered the war. [end excerpt]

What's your standard for "conclusional" proof? The U.S. Treasury Dept. and National Archives are just rumor mills?

darkeyes

Oct 10, 2008, 6:54 PM

This took me about 30 seconds on Google:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
<excerpt> George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy... [end excerpt]

http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm
[excerpt]Documents in National Archives Prove
George W. Bush's Grandfather Traded
with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor
By John Buchanan
Exclusive to The New Hampshire Gazette
10-10-3

WASHINGTON -- After 60 years of inattention and even denial by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926 until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush and his "enemy national" partners.

The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, tried to conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s, personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion of democratic principle and German law.

Furthermore, the declassified records demonstrate that Bush and his associates, who included E. Roland Harriman, younger brother of American icon W. Averell Harriman, and George Herbert Walker, President Bush's maternal great-grandfather, continued their dealings with the German industrial tycoon for nearly a year after the U.S. entered the war. [end excerpt]
What's your standard for "conclusional" proof? The U.S. Treasury Dept. and National Archives are just rumor mills?
Wud neva dreama blamin the sons for the sins a the fathers..but ya cant haff c wer they get it from...:tong:

Sarasvati

Oct 10, 2008, 8:01 PM

appropriate lead in to Guy Fawkes Day!! (personally I'll be remembering the 5th of November in my own imaginative way!!)

Please would you explain this comment more clearly.

elian

Oct 11, 2008, 12:04 AM

Please would you explain this comment more clearly.

If I remember the story correctly, the gentleman blew up the parliament house in England, or at least tried to..?

There was a relatively popular science fiction movie derived from the events: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XKa8VE7ILI

These following quotes seem to suggest diametrically opposing views - or at least I thought so at first - but the man lived non-violence..and the first one doesn't actually speak to motivating violence at all now that I think about it.

Cowardice asks the question - is it safe?
Expediency asks the question - is it politic?
Vanity asks the question - is it popular?
But conscience asks the question - is it right?
And there comes a time when one must take a position
that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular;
but one must take it because it is right.

--

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.
Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
Through violence you may murder the liar,
but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.
Through violence you may murder the hater,
but you do not murder hate.
In fact, violence merely increases hate.
So it goes.
Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.

--

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Lots of lustful polarized things seem to influence the world these days - you know - when you get too wrapped up in this stuff go for a walk outside - just sit by a brook watch the water flow by and meditate - reconnect to something bigger than the tempest of emotions stirred by everyone who has a stake in emotionally controlling your behavior.

There are a lot of entities, people, institutions that want a piece of you, they are very good at making you feel inadequate eh? I mean, if you didn't feel inadequate you might be satisfied to keep driving that same old car instead of buying a shiny new one.

Manufacture the problem and sell the solution - that's the name of the game in a place such as this. What news of the world? That depends on the highest bidder for the airwaves.

In a world that is now globally connected more than ever you need to be very clear on what your sphere of influence really is. You either learn to tune at least SOME of the "information" out, or you go crazy.

Polarization sells copy, but there IS still middle ground in this country - believe it.

void()

Oct 11, 2008, 3:53 AM

elian hon,

I appreciate your post and understand it was not directed at any single person. That noted, yes you are correct in a desire to escape from all the information. There is also good cause to seek out information, and to an extent 'news of the world'.

You're naivety is welcomed and loved. But let me posit some personal experience and perhaps a pinch of knowledge. The application of knowledge is wisdom according to Jefferson.

It is a good idea to benefit from the knowledge and experience/s of others. And thankfully we've history and the written word to convey these. One wise gentleman created a doctrine that to this very day is used by a nation in business and warfare. The doctrine suits many folks as an overall way of living, too.

"Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance
to the State.

It is a matter of life and death, a road either
to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry
which can on no account be neglected.

All warfare is based on deception.

Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we
are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder,
and crush him.

There is no instance of a country having benefited
from prolonged warfare.

Poverty of the State exchequer causes an army
to be maintained by contributions from a distance.
Contributing to maintain an army at a distance causes
the people to be impoverished.

On the other hand, the proximity of an army causes
prices to go up; and high prices cause the people's
substance to be drained away.

Therefore the skillful leader subdues the enemy's
troops without any fighting; he captures their cities
without laying siege to them; he overthrows their kingdom
without lengthy operations in the field.

It is a military axiom not to advance uphill
against the enemy, nor to oppose him when he comes downhill.

There are roads which must not be followed,
armies which must be not attacked, towns which must
be besieged, positions which must not be contested,
commands of the sovereign which must not be obeyed.

When the position is such that neither side will gain
by making the first move, it is called temporizing ground.

In a position of this sort, even though the enemy
should offer us an attractive bait, it will be advisable
not to stir forth, but rather to retreat, thus enticing
the enemy in his turn; then, when part of his army has
come out, we may deliver our attack with advantage."

You can read more Art of War (http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html) if you choose.

You posit there is a middle ground left. Middle ground can possibly be defined as common and further seen as temporizing ground. It is in effect a 'no man's land'. No man will dare cross it, with good reason. Two opposing camps with itchy trigger fingers keeping lookout. "I'll go dance in a live minefield, oh joy!" And it's likely the soldiers in both camps have 'broken their cookery and bowls', meaning they'll fight to the death.

Part of the C.I.A's operating procedures for taking over nations and sovereignty, in our behalf, is to gain control over a few things.

They take control of the money. If you make the money, you can do what you want in the country. And if money doesn't buy it for you, the weapons you buy with the money will. Tonight CNN reported that Secretary of Treasury has announced the Federal Government shall start buying stock in private sector banks. Simply put the Fed will now own where I keep my money safe. They'll be able to freeze any assets more readily. Gee, have control of the money yet? Of course, they also make it already.

They take control of transportation. In this they gain the ability to herd folks around. We now have so called 'free speech zones'. And we also have roving battalion that may randomly stop folks, ask for identification and business or purpose for being wherever at any given moment. And yes, they can enter private homes execute unwarranted search and seizures if they see fit. Primary mission, suppress insurgents. And who are insurgents? Careful how you answer, might get black bagged yourself.

There's a third key item the attempt to gain control over, I think it is dogma or religion. Not sure if I recall it correctly or not. This is from lots of different forms of research, interviews with folks who are 'in the know', and over the course of many years as growing up in a traditional soldiering family. At times memory flickers, especially as exhaustion wanes and wails at me. But, after 9/11 there was an internationally aired prayer session from the National Church, a Catholic Church at that, A Christian Church. They left out Muslim prayer in that, and it was done on purpose. "We are a Christian nation!"

Apologies but I think not. "Hi, I'm your happy atheistic Taoist in the foxhole, buddy. Nice to meet ya, head down now lest they frag us all."

Remember, our country was founded to escape religious prosecution. We are, or were free to believe or not believe as we chose. But, i'll probably be deemed a terrorist for mentioning that. "Oh big scary evil terrorist actually gives a damn enough to remember our history, bag 'im!"

There's your middle ground in my eyes. But, yes you're right sometimes a person must simply unplug. Nothing one person can do to change anything, huh?

If you think you are too small to make a difference,
try sleeping with a mosquito. - Dalai Lama

Love you honey, and you do make a difference. All this nonsense out here brings chilling fear, you light an inferno that blazes infinitely. No more fear.
Thank you.

darkeyes

Oct 11, 2008, 8:50 AM

If I remember the story correctly, the gentleman blew up the parliament house in England, or at least tried to..?

There was a relatively popular science fiction movie derived from the events: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XKa8VE7ILI

These following quotes seem to suggest diametrically opposing views - or at least I thought so at first - but the man lived non-violence..and the first one doesn't actually speak to motivating violence at all now that I think about it.

Cowardice asks the question - is it safe?
Expediency asks the question - is it politic?
Vanity asks the question - is it popular?
But conscience asks the question - is it right?
And there comes a time when one must take a position
that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular;
but one must take it because it is right.

--

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.
Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
Through violence you may murder the liar,
but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.
Through violence you may murder the hater,
but you do not murder hate.
In fact, violence merely increases hate.
So it goes.
Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.

--

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Lots of lustful polarized things seem to influence the world these days - you know - when you get too wrapped up in this stuff go for a walk outside - just sit by a brook watch the water flow by and meditate - reconnect to something bigger than the tempest of emotions stirred by everyone who has a stake in emotionally controlling your behavior.

There are a lot of entities, people, institutions that want a piece of you, they are very good at making you feel inadequate eh? I mean, if you didn't feel inadequate you might be satisfied to keep driving that same old car instead of buying a shiny new one.

Manufacture the problem and sell the solution - that's the name of the game in a place such as this. What news of the world? That depends on the highest bidder for the airwaves.

In a world that is now globally connected more than ever you need to be very clear on what your sphere of influence really is. You either learn to tune at least SOME of the "information" out, or you go crazy.
Polarization sells copy, but there IS still middle ground in this country - believe it.

Guido (Guy) Fawkes tried to as part of a plot by a bunch of incompetent Catholics to do away with a Protestant King and parliament, but got nicked sittin on the barrels of gunpowder before he could blow the place to kingdom come.... he was tortured, tried an finally burned at the stake for his trouble.. as were the co-conspirators.. the ones who survived the arrestat least..hence the traditional bonfire and fireworks parties all over the UK on and around the 5th of November and the effegy on the top of the bonfire being called the "Guy".. for his efforts, Catholics had little to thank him for, not because he failed, but because of the huge clampdown and suspicion put on them and their faith... 1605 was not a very good year for religious tolerance by either side...

I did have a little laugh to myself about your final comment in your post Elian about polarisation selling copy and the middle ground. It is actually typical of many in both our countries and indeed throughout the western world who believe themselves to be middle of the roaders.. I have always wondered exactly what that means for within what is considered middle of the road or middle ground if you prefer there are as many different opinions and beliefs as you will find in any left or right wing congress.. and not all are what we could describe as moderate or very pleasant.. political labels exist at least in part to define our general political stance, but also to identify us by our opponents as dangerous, untrustworthy, unreliable, violent, totalitarian, evil or nice and cuddly, peace loving, one of us, democratic, decent, honest and many other descriptions nice and not nice. How we are described politically conjures up in the minds of many a monster or a teddy bear and all things in between..

Being middle of the road/of the middle ground really means absolutely nothing. Neither really does the expressions left and right.. each could equally well be applied to each other if we try hard enough. Each label simply "describes" the general position of groups of human beings.. within each label is a vast array of different opinions and visions. From my experience, many middle of the roaders are much more extreme of thought than they would consider me, being anti gay, anti humanitarianism, anti conservation, anti liberal, anti anything which suits their purpose. As such really there is no middle ground..only ground..and where we stand on that ground defines us not as left and right but as human beings.. poltical thought is not like a road with a middle and two sides..more it is like the earth.. rounded and with more shades of opinion than there are grains of dirt on land and sea..where we stand is where we stand.. not right, not left or middle grounders though we use those terms as a way of identifying where we are.. it in no way represents the reality...

Being of middle ground if you must use that description, makes no one better than anyone else which is how you sound though may not necessarily mean.. it is a general political position and as such mean little except within society to describe those who are acceptable to it, as opposed to those who are not.. the right use it a great deal, here at least when in fact they mean something completely different. What they generally mean quite contemptuously is those who are not us, but we can generally rely on and are more susceptible to scaring.. thereare those on the left who also subscribe to that thought, but it is predominantly an tool which the right have always found very useful.

The world is a vastly more complex place than any of us credit.. as the old British proverb goes though (my words)..he who stands in the middle of the road gets run down by bloody great lorry.. but its wrong really.. because that bloody great lorry is a liable to be driven by a middle of the roader than any of us who are of the left or of the right.. and often every bit as unreliably and dangerously...

darkeyes

Oct 11, 2008, 9:09 AM

Gorra an e from me m8...will me stop bein so bloody heavy an serious in forums.... an Texie don like me speakin in English eitha.. afta all the complaints..me jus cant win..:(

K..from now on..jus call me Bimbo

elian

Oct 11, 2008, 10:10 AM

No dear I understand your point. I guess all of these words must've had an impact on me because I do feel slightly different about the issues - but at the time I wrote that last night I was just so tired - I can hear the strain of the passion, the tension and the emotion in your voices. I was trying to stay out of this but I had to respond after a while - sort of like moth to light.

My point at that time was regardless of what we think, the world keeps turning - and there are certain people who gain an awful lot by making you FEEL less powerful - dividing your opinions. Just because I choose not to get caught up in the tempest swirling around me does not mean I don't have strong opinions about things - growing up in an abusive household - where you didn't want people to GET angry means that I am a diplomat. I can see both sides of the issue, and I can try to synthesize something in the middle. Of course the middle is pure fantasy...unless you can get both sides to buy into it.

..forgive me for using imagery..

I remember a dream I had - I was standing in a room with what I could only describe as something sort of like an organized crime syndicate. I WAS angry, I DID take a stand - I pulled young people - good people with potential - out of the timeline and said to those present - "THIS is what you will be sacrificing" .. it seemed that for a time they listened. But just like like a horde of angry lustful vikings parked next to a bus full of Swedish bikini team cheerleaders their lust for power and control soon overwhelmed them again.

With the war and economy, and a million other things I have no doubt we are in a psychic war at the moment .. here in the "middle" class people are being pushed to extremes, everything happens quickly, everyone is in a hurry, everyone is self-centered, everything is short term. You can't treat people like widgets for long and not expect repercussions. I know it is naive, but I HAVE to keep believing in the positive potential of humanity - to be able to rise above that.

This is the strangest "war" I have ever seen - people seem inclined to ignore it, pretend it isn't there, business as usual - they bitch about the gas but pretend as if there is no dark cloud looming over their head, no storm in the distance at all. Funny that - the universe usually works more like a pendulum..a boomerang and I think people at their core know this.

Non violence is powerful too - everyone remembers the picture of that kid in Tienanmen Square standing next to the tank..

..<is reminded of a ballerina dancer twirling through the middle of the eye of a hurricane .. concentrating .. > time stops, slows down - and all you have to do is walk from one end of the rope to the other and not fall off..SOUNDS simple doesn't it?

<imagines the ballerina dancer with knives..but realizes that wishes, foolish passion and sheer intention are no defense when walking across a REAL battlefield..live to fight another day..someone still has to be left to clean up the mess.>

elian

Oct 11, 2008, 10:24 AM

Hmm..I guess I'm last post is floating dangerously close to "off-topic" perhaps. In any event I have some errands I need to run.

darkeyes

Oct 11, 2008, 10:43 AM

Hmm..I guess I'm last post is floating dangerously close to "off-topic" perhaps. In any event I have some errands I need to run.
Naaa hun.. don b soft..if its how ya feel its not off topic...tho ther will always b those who say it is... inside we all hav feelins an passions..an we shud open our hearts an our minds an let the world kno how we feel... if we don..both we an the world r in deep poop...:tong:

..an hav often sed an did things wen tired...in ere as well as elsewer..things me shudnta sed or did..its jus a daft lil thing we hav that makes us human... an who can tell..mayb in the end.. thats the truth of it.. we.. nunna of us... hav a monopoly on that...

void()

Oct 11, 2008, 7:38 PM

"you didn't want people to GET angry means that I am a diplomat."

Felicia, my wife (obviously not her real name), is also a diplomat. Guess, I'm the big old scary wolf you guys keep out back in case of emergencies. And if so, that's alright by me.

Yes, diplomacy has its benefits. There exists a point when diplomacy no longer functions. It is at this point you wait for some one to spark off the powder kegs under Guido's arse, and the party begins.

In all seriousness I blame relativism and absolutes. Relativism will tell you it needs absolutes, but accepts there are no absolutes. This in turn really, pardon the Saxxon, fucks with the definition of words. You see words themselves harbor no meaning, they are but symbols we use to communicate. And terrorism can be defined oh so many ways that it's not funny.

Psychic war? "Every soul a battlefield!" - Rush, _Cygnus X1_ off of Hemispheres album. Yeah, we've been playing Enochian chess for a bit now. Pull up a chair if you want in, hon. Better yet sit here on my lap, move my pieces around. (Somehow manages to retain a straight, or rather somber face)

And yes, grew up in a bad family sit here also. As such I avoid playing poker too often, unless I'm sure the company is genuinely playing 'just for sherry and giggles'. It was a favorite game of an abuser. I got beaten weather I won or lost. Psychotic from it? No, psychosis requires emotions. After so much pounding you learn to cut emotions off to avoid more pounding.

Does that mean I'm a little screwed up in the noggin? Yes, isn't everyone?
And I had therapy as a child, often times frightening the shrinks by merely sitting there with a smile, no speaking. One guy actually ran from the room in terror, sent in another shrink. Oh she was good, crafty tart her.

She reached over to the bookshelf and passed me the psychology encyclopedia.

"Yours is out of date." I said.

"Maybe we should just borrow the college's then?"

And then she put the encyclopedia up, passed me the first book in the Earthsea Trilogy. "Tell me what you enjoy about the story next week." She said.

It created a door into the world of a granite hard eight year old. Within two weeks I'd read all the Earthsea books. We talked about them. Both aware that our discussions were 'common ground' and reflections of so much more.

Eventually one day she asked, "tired of chess?"

Apparently I seemed got. "Excellent game you've played so far. Neglected to tell me how you feel. And not mentioning it says everything. Now, care to use the French Gambit, or perhaps the Grecian?"

Until about a decade ago, most of the emotions remained locked out. Still have trouble with them. But I always grasp at the wind, in it voices carry.
So you and Anita, my wife, can be diplomatic on my behalf. I'll merely ravish you both in turn or together privately.