NASA: Lands on Mars

[DuckiesDarling]

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=146903741

Enjoy the video, it was amazing watching it liveon ustream.

[pepperjack]

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=146903741

Enjoy the video, it was amazing watching it liveon ustream.


I've had a watchful eye on this news item over the week-end, wondering if that thing was going to land as planned. The last article I read, I think on Friday, said it would be an extraordinary technological achievement if it survived what Nasa called " seven minutes of terror." We live in absolutely fascinating times. Can't wait to see what it discovers and the data transmitted back!

[æonpax]

I watched the more tense moments, from this live nasa feed; http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/nasatv/

[darkeyes]

Didn't and haven't seen owt of it...'cept for a few headlines on telly and newspapers and don't speak or read Dutch too well but knew it had gone well and am chuffed.. late this afternoon we were sitting outside the Rijkesmuseum and our daughter who was munching on a choccie bar suddenly screamed.."Curiosity has landed!!!" A fly had landed on her choccie. The choccie? Wot else.. a Mars bar!!! Wotta lil wit she can b at times!! Smartarse!!:tongue:

[chuck1124]

Isn't it a shame that the Obama Administration is going to cut funding for NASA

[void()]

Curiosity Cam (http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl#events)

[Gearbox]

I just don't get it! All this fuss sending a robot to Mars to see about the origins of life etc, and we can't even sustain life here on Earth. So why bother?
What good would ANY info gained from that 'mission' do for us here?
Will there be super crops that can grow in Africa?

What am I missing here? How are these NASSA people bright?:rolleyes:

[DuckiesDarling]

Gear, there is interest as Mars might wind up being a colony down the road. So I guess you are missing the point that humans want to explore and expand. Btw, it's NASA, not NASSA, and they are actually rocket scientists so I guess you'd say they were very bright. :D

[DuckiesDarling]

Curiosity Cam (http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl#events)

Thanks, hon, been watching that and was gonna link it but you beat me to it :D

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

lol Great. Somewhere else for humans to screw up in the future.....Sigh
Cat

[pepperjack]

Didn't and haven't seen owt of it...'cept for a few headlines on telly and newspapers and don't speak or read Dutch too well but knew it had gone well and am chuffed.. late this afternoon we were sitting outside the Rijkesmuseum and our daughter who was munching on a choccie bar suddenly screamed.."Curiosity has landed!!!" A fly had landed on her choccie. The choccie? Wot else.. a Mars bar!!! Wotta lil wit she can b at times!! Smartarse!!:tongue:

Hearty belly laugh:smilies15 OMG, what a great Franism! Only you could make this kind of a connection.:smilies15

[darkeyes]

Hearty belly laugh:smilies15 OMG, what a great Franism! Only you could make this kind of a connection.:smilies15Obviously not, Pepper, if u read more carefully what I wrote... but the lil Minx does share much of Mummy Fran's sense of fun...:bigrin:

[Gearbox]

Gear, there is interest as Mars might wind up being a colony down the road. So I guess you are missing the point that humans want to explore and expand. Btw, it's NASA, not NASSA, and they are actually rocket scientists so I guess you'd say they were very bright. :D
Have you seen the mess we make on Earth lately? And that is a planet suited perfectly for colonisation, so God knows what those bright sparks think they'd achieve on Mars. That's IF a Human could survive the passage there.
The 3rd world countries have problems that could be worked on, before shooting off to Mars for 1000 times worse problems. May give some idea how to deal with hostile environments.

[darkeyes]

lol Great. Somewhere else for humans to screw up in the future.....Sigh
Cat
I share ur concern Cat.. really.. but to grow and prosper we need to expand and we need new horizons as a species.. to be hemmed in by our world will ultimately bring about our demise and the kind of collapse described in darlin's darlin's thread... and human curiosity means we will go wherever we can develop the technology to get there...

...and unlike Gear.. who thinks it of little or no use whatsoever, I don't share his cynicism for many of the things we have today to make our lives better were developed from technology used to get humanity into space.. much is used for more sinister purposes but so was the invention of the wheel... and darlin' darlin'? They are bright, but they are far far more than simply rocket scientists... rocket science if anything is the least smart thing about NASA, ESA or any other space agency..

At night especially when I am where there are no street lights to take away from my view of the heavens I gaze up in wonder at what I see.. I long to be able reach out and touch what i see in the night sky and know as much as I can about what seems so unknowable.. humanity needs to know and to know means leaving behind this most beautiful and wonderful place in the cosmos and finding even more wonderful and beautiful world's...

[tenni]

Gear
I think that you may be seeing the two issues as an either or? The money spent on space exploration although a goodly sum is a small amount required to resolve this planet's issues whether they be environmental, human population or other significantly important matters. If we look at the money spent in the USA on its military complex industry how does that compare to the money spent globally on space exploration..which differs from extraterrestrial colonization or control by corporate types.

There are benefits that were derived by earlier space explorations that became household matters in some cases. Whether they were significant with no environmental issues is a different question.

I think that this is a fascinating continuation of human exploration started centuries before. If you mean destruction as Cat suggests then yes, we are just entering another messy human domination situation. Still, steps such as Curiosity towards space exploration are worth paying attention to with just a little awe. When Britain, France, Spain and Portugal got on ships to "explore" they had profit in mind. Sadly, that still may dominate our thinking even by the choice of words like "colony".

[Brian]

I watched it live too. It was quite exciting.

Science Saves!

- Drew

[Gearbox]

Gear
I think that you may be seeing the two issues as an either or? The money spent on space exploration although a goodly sum is a small amount required to resolve this planet's issues whether they be environmental, human population or other significantly important matters. If we look at the money spent in the USA on its military complex industry how does that compare to the money spent globally on space exploration..which differs from extraterrestrial colonization or control by corporate types.

There are benefits that were derived by earlier space explorations that became household matters in some cases. Whether they were significant with no environmental issues is a different question.

I think that this is a fascinating continuation of human exploration started centuries before. If you mean destruction as Cat suggests then yes, we are just entering another messy human domination situation. Still, steps such as Curiosity towards space exploration are worth paying attention to with just a little awe. When Britain, France, Spain and Portugal got on ships to "explore" they had profit in mind. Sadly, that still may dominate our thinking even by the choice of words like "colony".
It's the same thing. Colonisation can not occur without first tackling technologies that can solve/ease Earth's problems, such as 'free energy' etc. There'll be no drive by burger shops on Mars I expect, so government/regime will need evolving too. A self sufficient populace with a government? Is that where democracy is heading?

We may get a sonic toaster or something out of this mission. I'd like a laser thingymajig that brews the perfect cup of tea.YAY!
But yes it is fascinating even if not the slightest bit useful for anything at all, which is a high possibility. It might prove to be highly useful though. You pays your money, you takes your chances.lol
Those European explorers of continents etc had it easy by comparison. They actually had vessels that had a snowflake in Hells chance of getting them from A-B in good health, or at least alive. :tongue:

[void()]

I watched it live too. It was quite exciting.

Science Saves!

- Drew

Same question I ask of Jesus. What does it save me from, or for? ;) Sorry, couldn't resist being a smart ass.

[void()]

It's the same thing. Colonisation can not occur without first tackling technologies that can solve/ease Earth's problems, such as 'free energy' etc. There'll be no drive by burger shops on Mars I expect, so government/regime will need evolving too. A self sufficient populace with a government? Is that where democracy is heading?

We may get a sonic toaster or something out of this mission. I'd like a laser thingymajig that brews the perfect cup of tea.YAY!
But yes it is fascinating even if not the slightest bit useful for anything at all, which is a high possibility. It might prove to be highly useful though. You pays your money, you takes your chances.lol
Those European explorers of continents etc had it easy by comparison. They actually had vessels that had a snowflake in Hells chance of getting them from A-B in good health, or at least alive. :tongue:

And I'm called nihilistic?

[tenni]

Science Saves!

Same question I ask of Jesus. What does it save me from, or for? ;) Sorry, couldn't resist being a smart ass.

Well, drew and Void. I remember what I was taught many years ago about science and more specifically technology. (It was a "science" class btw that these ideas came from)

Humans and their technology have not saved us. Technology will not save us from damaging the ecosystem whether on Earth or Mars. Balance is needed and technology has been used to "save" us from this crisis or need but in reality has left an unbalanced state with the natural systems.

Science may save us but only if we get our merde together and get success as meaning a balance ecosystem. Look at all the space junk that we have flying over us. Scientists use to go the the Arctic to do research for oil. They left the mess and even sixty years later little had changed or decayed back to a homeostatic relationship with the environment. Today, scientist pick up their crap and take it home to recyle rather than leave it in a pristine environment. Right now, Mars is a pristine environment...more or less with a couple of robotics running around.

In one hundred years what will it be like?

[Gearbox]

And I'm called nihilistic?
Let them eat cake Void! We maybe apathetic, but at least we're passionate about it.:tongue:

[darkeyes]

It's the same thing. Colonisation can not occur without first tackling technologies that can solve/ease Earth's problems, such as 'free energy' etc. There'll be no drive by burger shops on Mars I expect, so government/regime will need evolving too. A self sufficient populace with a government? Is that where democracy is heading?

We may get a sonic toaster or something out of this mission. I'd like a laser thingymajig that brews the perfect cup of tea.YAY!
But yes it is fascinating even if not the slightest bit useful for anything at all, which is a high possibility. It might prove to be highly useful though. You pays your money, you takes your chances.lol
Those European explorers of continents etc had it easy by comparison. They actually had vessels that had a snowflake in Hells chance of getting them from A-B in good health, or at least alive. :tongue:
Aaaahh me luffly cynic an' Dismal Jimmy.... not sure you're right about colonisation.. best I can work out it is likely to help solve the problems just as the existence of the space programme is making its contribution now... in itself it wont solve them but it helps... only the will and wit of human beings can solve them and using everything we can to do just that.. neither am I convinced you are right about the dangers of modern space travellers necessarily being so much greater than the dangers for Magellan, Da Gama and people like them.. they didn't have the technoligical innovations that space travellers will have so, or anything like the knowledge of where they were headed that modern space travellers do so I reckon it balances itself out...the list of things which are used every day developed from the space programmes of various countries is extensive and improvements in already invented technologies make it more than worthwhile.. from improved weather forecasting to cordless power tools and umpteen medical advances and safety devices and protective clothing for the workplace.. not useful for ne thing at all? Not how I see it... a lil googling and it hits ya in the face just how much it has brought to humankind.. this from NASA gves ya an idea. http://thiqaruni.org/gnr33/26.pdf

..and tenni? I agree with your post.. people put too much faith in technology and we misuse it.. it is likely that we will do so on other worlds too.. the cycle of rape and pillage which human beings are so fond of when it comes to the environment can't go on forever as long as we are restricted to this one little world.. resources are finite and population can't grow unchecked. We have so much to learn and one thing we have to learn is to care for what is around us better than we do.. but whether greed and capital and nations competing against one another can possibly learn this is doubtful..

I only hope that when we do begin to colonise other worlds as I believe we shall do in time that there is no life upon these worlds, because I don't fancy its chances of being life for very long with our track record as a species... yet go into that great void we must or eventually we sew the seeds of our own demise if we have not already done so... whether we shall develop the technological capacity to leave our own solar system to colonise other worlds is questionable.. yet if we are to survive we must, but maybe our kismet is to remain tied to our little system of planets and disappear when even technology is unable to see us through as conditions become too hostile. I think probably that is the most likely scenario and with the history of our kind to remember maybe that is the best thing for the cosmos...

[jamieknyc]

I am old enough to remember watching Neil Armstrong take the one small step for a man, and the same foolish objections were made to the Apollo program.

The advancement of scientific knowledge is an end it itself, and one that justifies the effort and expense. No one, in reality, is colonizing Mars or anywhere else. And the decades-long snooze in the exploration of space did nothing to solve world hunger anyway.

[pepperjack]

Aaaahh me luffly cynic an' Dismal Jimmy.... not sure you're right about colonisation.. best I can work out it is likely to help solve the problems just as the existence of the space programme is making its contribution now... in itself it wont solve them but it helps... only the will and wit of human beings can solve them and using everything we can to do just that.. neither am I convinced you are right about the dangers of modern space travellers necessarily being so much greater than the dangers for Magellan, Da Gama and people like them.. they didn't have the technoligical innovations that space travellers will have so, or anything like the knowledge of where they were headed that modern space travellers do so I reckon it balances itself out...the list of things which are used every day developed from the space programmes of various countries is extensive and improvements in already invented technologies make it more than worthwhile.. from improved weather forecasting to cordless power tools and umpteen medical advances and safety devices and protective clothing for the workplace.. not useful for ne thing at all? Not how I see it... a lil googling and it hits ya in the face just how much it has brought to humankind.. this from NASA gves ya an idea. http://thiqaruni.org/gnr33/26.pdf

..and tenni? I agree with your post.. people put too much faith in technology and we misuse it.. it is likely that we will do so on other worlds too.. the cycle of rape and pillage which human beings are so fond of when it comes to the environment can't go on forever as long as we are restricted to this one little world.. resources are finite and population can't grow unchecked. We have so much to learn and one thing we have to learn is to care for what is around us better than we do.. but whether greed and capital and nations competing against one another can possibly learn this is doubtful..

I only hope that when we do begin to colonise other worlds as I believe we shall do in time that there is no life upon these worlds, because I don't fancy its chances of being life for very long with our track record as a species... yet go into that great void we must or eventually we sew the seeds of our own demise if we have not already done so... whether we shall develop the technological capacity to leave our own solar system to colonise other worlds is questionable.. yet if we are to survive we must, but maybe our kismet is to remain tied to our little system of planets and disappear when even technology is unable to see us through as conditions become too hostile. I think probably that is the most likely scenario and with the history of our kind to remember maybe that is the best thing for the cosmos...








Fran, you're obviously a very ambivalent person. On one hand, you express much confidence in humankind; on the other, your cynicism is no less than Gear's. The summation to your post sounds very negative, futile, fatalistic. This is why I have a measure of faith in a Higher Power that I believe is not going to allow man to destroy this world and annihilate himself. Some would view that as futile, false hope...even delusional. If God had not manifested His reality to me, I could very well be an atheist also. I don't know if you're into movies, but I recommend the recent sci-fi blockbuster, Prometheus, which I think effectively blends the elements of religion, human nature and interstellar travel.

[darkeyes]

Fran, you're obviously a very ambivalent person. On one hand, you express much confidence in humankind; on the other, your cynicism is no less than Gear's. The summation to your post sounds very negative, futile, fatalistic. This is why I have a measure of faith in a Higher Power that I believe is not going to allow man to destroy this world and annihilate himself. Some would view that as futile, false hope...even delusional. If God had not manifested His reality to me, I could very well be an atheist also. I don't know if you're into movies, but I recommend the recent sci-fi blockbuster, Prometheus, which I think effectively blends the elements of religion, human nature and interstellar travel.
Pepper I have far more faith in humankind to become what I dream it to be than possibly my post suggests... what I do not have faith in is that humankind will make that giant leap into wisdom before it has inflicted great damage upon the cosmos. Scientific and technological advancement has been outstripping the human capacity to use it wisely increasingly over the last two centuries.. and in the last 50 years it has moved at such a pace that technology and science endanger our survival and indeed survival of life on this planet. it advances at an ever increasing rate and like many am concerned that in the short to medium term we will continue to not harness it as wisely as we should. I do however have faith that in time this we, or at least our descendants many generations down the line, will manage but as with science and technology now, its use by a greedy and selfish immature species will do great harm before we get a grip on it.

I understand why you make the observations you do, but I have no crystal ball and am unable to read the future... I have much cynicism about our species but the history of our kind tells me that over centuries and millennia we have become better in so many ways and learned so much, but the speed of scientific and technological change is such that we still have much to learn about using that science and that technology properly and wisely.

It will be millennia before humanity will be as I dream it to be... but a lot can happen in a year never mind a millennium or two and I am quite sure it will be far longer than that before humankind develops the maturity, wisdom and forethought I believe it can.... that we shall do that I am extremely optimistic, but whether we can do that either prior to causing much chaos outside of our world or in our own is unlikely and while I am optimistic that in time we will as a species survive and prosper. I have no doubt that it will have a few blips along the way, even seriously catastrophic ones such as have been discussed in another thread.. the record of humanity and its interference in its own natural world begs many questions.. often we have interfered and created even greater problems for ourselves.. we have no idea what problems our interference on other worlds will create for our descendants on this one.

I may well sound cynical.. but I don't lack optimism that in time our descendants a long way down the line will get it right.. just what kind of world they will live in no one can say.. it may be in the stars.. it may not be and I do have doubts that it can be, but we are a remarkable species for all our selfishness and greed and about that we just do not know.. we may be able to establish colonies within our solar system to help with the subsistence of our own world and for those colonies to prosper in their own right with as yet unknown science and technologies to help them survive.

All species die in the end...setting aside the possibility of an afterlife which is something I do not believe in, it is ultimately the fate of all.. but while we survive and live as a species, just as how we live as individual human beings, is what wiil mark us out as worthy or otherwise...ultimately I believe we shall become worthy, but before that happens I am far less than convinced that we will not do just as great if not greater damage to the parts of the cosmos we touch as we have done to our own world. But if we do survive long enough I have no doubt that we shall be able to come to terms with our universe and treat it far more gently and kindly than than we have hitherto done our earth or are very likely to do in the early millenia of mankind's cosmic explorations and colonisation.

Nothing of what I say changes my mind about seeking out the stars.. we shall do so because they are there and because I firmly believe we have no option.. we need new horizons and we need new resources if we are to prosper and grow as a species...we may even, because of our lack of kindness to earth need a new home... I have hope.. and belief.. but neither belief or hope are cast iron guarantees of success... these have to be tempered with caution and realism and that is why I speak as I do..

I am a dreamer, Pepper... often our dreams are nightmares.. I don't know about you or anyone else on site, but I have far more good dreams than I have nightmares.

[pepperjack]

Pepper I have far more faith in humankind to become what I dream it to be than possibly my post suggests... what I do not have faith in is that humankind will make that giant leap into wisdom before it has inflicted great damage upon the cosmos. Scientific and technological advancement has been outstripping the human capacity to use it wisely increasingly over the last two centuries.. and in the last 50 years it has moved at such a pace that technology and science endanger our survival and indeed survival of life on this planet. it advances at an ever increasing rate and like many am concerned that in the short to medium term we will continue to not harness it as wisely as we should. I do however have faith that in time this we, or at least our descendants many generations down the line, will manage but as with science and technology now, its use by a greedy and selfish immature species will do great harm before we get a grip on it.

I understand why you make the observations you do, but I have no crystal ball and am unable to read the future... I have much cynicism about our species but the history of our kind tells me that over centuries and millennia we have become better in so many ways and learned so much, but the speed of scientific and technological change is such that we still have much to learn about using that science and that technology properly and wisely.

It will be millennia before humanity will be as I dream it to be... but a lot can happen in a year never mind a millennium or two and I am quite sure it will be far longer than that before humankind develops the maturity, wisdom and forethought I believe it can.... that we shall do that I am extremely optimistic, but whether we can do that either prior to causing much chaos outside of our world or in our own is unlikely and while I am optimistic that in time we will as a species survive and prosper. I have no doubt that it will have a few blips along the way, even seriously catastrophic ones such as have been discussed in another thread.. the record of humanity and its interference in its own natural world begs many questions.. often we have interfered and created even greater problems for ourselves.. we have no idea what problems our interference on other worlds will create for our descendants on this one.

I may well sound cynical.. but I don't lack optimism that in time our descendants a long way down the line will get it right.. just what kind of world they will live in no one can say.. it may be in the stars.. it may not be and I do have doubts that it can be, but we are a remarkable species for all our selfishness and greed and about that we just do not know.. we may be able to establish colonies within our solar system to help with the subsistence of our own world and for those colonies to prosper in their own right with as yet unknown science and technologies to help them survive.

All species die in the end...setting aside the possibility of an afterlife which is something I do not believe in, it is ultimately the fate of all.. but while we survive and live as a species, just as how we live as individual human beings, is what wiil mark us out as worthy or otherwise...ultimately I believe we shall become worthy, but before that happens I am far less than convinced that we will not do just as great if not greater damage to the parts of the cosmos we touch as we have done to our own world. But if we do survive long enough I have no doubt that we shall be able to come to terms with our universe and treat it far more gently and kindly than than we have hitherto done our earth or are very likely to do in the early millenia of mankind's cosmic explorations and colonisation.

Nothing of what I say changes my mind about seeking out the stars.. we shall do so because they are there and because I firmly believe we have no option.. we need new horizons and we need new resources if we are to prosper and grow as a species...we may even, because of our lack of kindness to earth need a new home... I have hope.. and belief.. but neither belief or hope are cast iron guarantees of success... these have to be tempered with caution and realism and that is why I speak as I do..

I am a dreamer, Pepper... often our dreams are nightmares.. I don't know about you or anyone else on site, but I have far more good dreams than I have nightmares.


Dark, I continue to love & respect ya, but I have to disagree with your comment about "all species dying in the end." The bald eagle, proud symbol of our country was once declared an endangered species. A nearby reservoir was designated as a sanctuary for that magnificent bird... I saw a few...a golden eagle also... which a local Native American told me was extremely rare. Anyway, I contributed my tax dollars to that sanctuary & now the bald eagle is doing well again. Also, I just learned this: http://www.uhaul.com/SuperGraphics/56/1/Venture-Across-America-and-Canada-Modern/Idaho/Mysterious-bones
And....human beings have proved to be the resilient of all species.:)

[darkeyes]

Dark, I continue to love & respect ya, but I have to disagree with your comment about "all species dying in the end." The bald eagle, proud symbol of our country was once declared an endangered species. A nearby reservoir was designated as a sanctuary for that magnificent bird... I saw a few...a golden eagle also... which a local Native American told me was extremely rare. Anyway, I contributed my tax dollars to that sanctuary & now the bald eagle is doing well again. Also, I just learned this: http://www.uhaul.com/SuperGraphics/56/1/Venture-Across-America-and-Canada-Modern/Idaho/Mysterious-bones
And....human beings have proved to be the resilient of all species.:)
Kate and I are both active environmentalists and conservationists and spend time and money on trying to keep species of flora and fauna alive. Kate in particular who does a great deal on behalf of whales.. our younger daughter insists we do what we can for the Osprey, once extinct in the UK but now once again can be seen in our skies...but sometimes sadly no matter what we do, whether it be for reasons we do not understand or because of human interference every year species become extinct.. and when we go north, there is nothing quite so awesome as a Golden eagle, once hunted almost to extinction by landowners and farmers, and Sea eagles another beautiful raptor until recently extinct and missing from our skies but now once again both increasing in number and gracing our countryside...I don't have God to sustain me, nor do I have the arrogance that somehow we will avoid that fate ultimately. Resilience neither means invincibility or species immortality... by going into space we may extend our time in the cosmos but we will not save ourselves from ultimate doom.