PDA

View Full Version : Don’t Ask, Don’t Tennessee: Why Muslims and the LGBTQ Community Should Be Allies



NotLostJustWandering
Jul 11, 2011, 2:59 AM
Reposted from alt.muslimah, a surprisingly touching article, quite a cut above the usual political homily, with points highly relevant to our own issues of visibility.

http://www.altmuslimah.com/a/b/spa/4366/

By Chris Stedman, July 8, 2011

This year, two notable controversies have been brewing in Tennessee: a proposed bill (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/22/tennessee-dont-say-gay-bill-advances_n_852616.html) that would forbid educators from using the word “gay” in the classroom, and a court battle (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/23/my-take-this-just-in-tennessee-court-says-islam-is-a-religion/) to determine whether or not Islam is a religion. (The verdict? Islam is in fact a religion—for now, anyway.)

These two issues may seem unrelated, but I believe they’re actually symptoms of the same problem—our nation’s historical difficulty with those who are seen as disrupting the status quo. Intolerance against Muslims and LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer) individuals isn’t exclusive to Tennessee; with a fever-pitched debate over Park51 (http://blog.park51.org/) (or the “Ground Zero Mosque”) and headline-grabbing concerns about anti-LGBTQ bullying, these issues are a national concern.

Last month, I went to Tennessee for the first time. I spoke at Vanderbilt about the need for the religious and the nonreligious to find better ways of engaging with one another and identifying action-oriented shared values, sharing some of the experiences I write about in my forthcoming memoir, (F)a(i)theist: How One Atheist Learned to Challenge the Religious-Secular Divide, and Why Atheists and the Religious Must Work Together (http://www.faitheistbook.com/)(working title, Beacon Press 2012).

While there, I talked with a number of people about the ongoing struggles for Tennessee’s Muslim community. We discussed their Lieutenant Governor’s remarks (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/07/tennessee-lt-gov-religious-freedom-doesnt-count-if-youre-muslim-video.php) that he is “not sure” if the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion to Muslims and his characterization of Islam a “cult;” proposed legislation (http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2011/02/sharia_law_ban_proposed_in_tennessee.html) that would make the practice of Sharia punishable by 15 years in prison; and how the site of a future mosque had been the subject of arson (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/03/tennessee-mosque-site-fire-an-arson-feds-say/).

This wasn’t my first exposure to the challenges many American Muslims face. When I lived in Chicago, I worked extensively with the Muslim community. At first blush, it seemed we had little in common. I once walked into a meeting in a too-small t-shirt and neon green skinny jeans, my tattoo sleeve exposed and hollow gauges in my stretched earlobes, when a woman with a bright smile framed by a beautiful purple headscarf approached me and asked why I was there. I told her that I was a contract employee of the Interfaith Youth Core (IFYC) (http://ifyc.org/), and was interested in learning more about what they were doing.

“Oh!” she exclaimed. “And what faith tradition are you a part of?”

“None,” I said, returning her smile. “I’m an atheist.”

Her eyes flicked to my right, as if to check with someone if it was alright for me to be there. But her hesitation didn’t last long; within minutes, we were gushing over our mutual love for a new Brother Ali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Ali) song, “Tightrope.” (http://www.urbanlyrics.com/lyrics/brotherali/tightrope.html) In it, Brother Ali, a Muslim rapper from my home state of Minnesota, tells the stories of a young Muslim woman who faces discrimination for wearing a headscarf and a closeted gay teenager who is the son of an anti-gay Christian minister. We bonded over how we both felt that the song had represented struggles we ourselves had experienced, and the parallels between them. By the end of the conversation, we had uncovered a lot of common ground between our seemingly disparate identities.

After that conversation, I reflected on how different it was than the ones I had when working with the Somali community in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I volunteered weekly at the Brian Coyle Community Center (BCCC). Just blocks from my college, BCCC served the Cedar-Riverside neighborhood—one of the most densely populated areas in Minnesota, with nearly 2,000 apartment units in a two-block area. The makeup of the neighborhood was primarily Somali immigrants, the majority of whom were Muslim.

I volunteered at BCCC and started to become an active member of the community. As a result, I began to understand better the joys and challenges the Somali immigrant community in Minneapolis faced. When a young girl with round brown eyes and a striking red head scarf vividly described her first encounter with snow, I felt like I was experiencing Minnesota winter for the first time. When a mother with one child in her left arm and two running around her feet thanked me for helping her son with his math homework, I informed her that he actually knew more about the subject than I did. When I missed a week due to a bad cold, everyone grinned at my return and told me how much they had missed and worried about me. We became invested in one another’s lives, and we taught one another how to be together. They even tried to coach me on some rudimentary Somali, but always playfully chided me for not sounding forceful enough: “You sound too Minnesotan!” they’d say with a chuckle (and they were right: I did).

But when it came to matters of religious life, I disengaged. As a former evangelical Christian turned atheist, I believed that religion was something best left undiscussed. They were free to their religious beliefs, I thought, but it didn’t mean I had to listen to them talk about it.

One day I stayed late, caught up in conversation with a group of regulars. Gradually all but one trickled away, leaving me and a young woman I had spoken with a handful of times. She was petite, but her presence filled the room—she spoke rapidly and precisely. A couple plates of food scraps sat on the table in front of us as we quizzed one another on the details of our lives.

After some talk of how terrible the Minnesota NBA team had been playing that year and which local politicians we were voting for, she paused and looked down at the nearly empty plate in front of her and took a deep breath.

“You know, some days I’m really afraid to go out in public because of how I dress. I just get tired of dealing with the stares and jeers my hijab elicits,” she said, barely audible. We were both silent. I heard a shout from down the hall that the gymnasium was closing and all basketballs should be returned to the equipment closet.

“It’s not exactly the same thing, but I think I can empathize,” I said before I could stop myself. She looked up. Her face showed that she was curious about how I, a white male who looked like every other young hipster, might relate.

“Sometimes I get really nervous about the looks I get when I’m holding another man’s hand in public.” I wasn’t sure how she would respond to this new information. I wasn’t really out as queer to anyone at BCCC—I assumed that, because many of them were religious, it would be an issue. She smiled, and I realized I hadn’t taken a breath in the last minute.

“When I’m afraid of how others might receive me,” she said, leaning in, her elbows sliding across the table in perfect unison like a pair of synchronized swimmers, “it is my belief in Allah that gives me strength.” She wasn’t proselytizing; she was sharing her beliefs. She hadn’t asked for clarification about what I had said, hadn’t condemned me; she hadn’t even blinked.

“May I ask you: what gives you strength when you get such looks, or when someone says something disparaging about you because of who you are?” She looked me in the face, her eyes warm and brown and invitational.

I froze. I looked down at her elbows and noticed that they were fixed in place, their choreography finished. The show was over, and I too was done.

“Um, do you know when this place shuts down for the night?” I asked, shifting my head to the left, unable to look her in the eye.

Her religious beliefs were integral to her identity, and she opened a door for us to discuss the things that mattered to us both with candor and honesty. But I was afraid to open up to her—the gulf I imagined between the experiences of a gay atheist and Muslim woman seemed too vast. Rising abruptly, I picked up the plates from the table and grabbed my bike helmet with a fumble, inventing some story about a big paper that was due the next day.

Working with the Muslim community in Chicago, I realized how problematic my “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach to working with the Muslim community in Minneapolis had been; how my refusal to engage the religious identities of those I worked with at BCCC closed me off from countless opportunities to build bridges of understanding and respect with a community I honestly knew very little about, aside from my academic study of Islam. And how, by refusing to open up to them about my own beliefs and experiences, I denied them the opportunity to learn about me—to really know me and understand the challenges that I faced.

Religious and LGBTQ identities are important, and when we try to tuck them away in some dark and dusty corner we lose something integral. When open discussion about essential aspects of our identity becomes taboo—when we are forced to silence the stories of who we are and what matters to us—intolerance goes unchallenged and we are its accomplices, complicit in allowing others to be cast aside. When we see the other as so different that we think we can find no common ground, we allow others to see them as not-quite-human, too.

It is fear of the unknown that keeps us apart. Telling people that they can’t use the word “gay” in the classroom, or suggesting that Islam isn’t a religion—that it shouldn’t been seen as in the same realm as Christianity and other religions—and that Muslims shouldn’t be able to build a Mosque, prevents us from learning about one another. Religious literacy is abysmal in the United States while religious diversity thrives, breeding ignorance and fear of the other. The time that a friend of mine had her hijab ripped off, and the time I was physically assaulted by a group of men who shouted “fag” at me, share a common root.

Last year, a Gallup poll demonstrated something the LGBTQ community has known for some time: people are significantly more inclined to oppose gay marriage if they do not know anyone who is gay. Similarly, a Time Magazine cover story featured revealing numbers that speak volumes about the correlation between positive relationships and civic support; per their survey, 46 percent of Americans think Islam is more violent than other faiths and 61 percent oppose Park51, but only 37 percent even know a Muslim American. Another survey, by Pew, reported that 55 percent of Americans know “not very much” or “nothing at all” about Islam. The disconnect is clear—when only 37 percent of Americans know a Muslim American, and 55 percent claim to know very little or nothing about Islam, the negative stereotypes about the Muslim community go unchallenged.

The Muslim and LGBTQ communities face common challenges that stem from the same problem—that diverse communities don’t have robust and durable civic ties. This is why the Muslim and LGBTQ communities ought to be strong allies.

This shouldn’t suggest that there won’t be some profound disagreements, and that engagement won’t be fraught and difficult—perhaps especially so for those whose identities are located at the intersection of LGBTQ and Muslim—but if we avoid this engagement simply because it may be hard, or messy, or complex, then we have ceded victory to the forces of intolerance and allowed our voices to be subsumed by those whose bombastic volume is designed to drown us out.

As Robert Wright wrote in the New York Times (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/islamophobia-and-homophobia/) last year, the LGBTQ community has learned that engaged relationships change people’s hearts and minds, and this is a model that can be applied to the issue of anti-Muslim bias as well. All the more, I believe that the LGBTQ and Muslim communities would do well to join together and decry the voices that wish to marginalize either—and, often, the voices that marginalize both.

Until Tennessee, and all of the United States, is a safe place for both LGBTQ individuals and Muslims, it will not be a safe place for anyone. But together, Muslims, LGBTQ individuals, and all of those committed to equality can ensure that this is so.
----------------------
Chris Stedman is an Interfaith and Community Service Fellow, Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard (http://harvardhumanist.org/) and Managing Director, State of Formation at Journal of Inter-Religious Dialogue (http://irdialogue.org/). He is also a columnist for Huffington Post Religion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-stedman) and blogs at NonProphet Status (http://nonprophetstatus.com/). He tweets from @ChrisDStedman (http://twitter.com/ChrisDStedman). Crossposted with permission from former TNG Contributor Chris Stedman. Check out the original posting at muslimahmerican.com.

tenni
Jul 11, 2011, 8:24 AM
Hey Notlost
It is a somewhat interesting and very positive article. The idea of tolerance of differences is always a good premise. The Muslim woman seemed very tolerant although somewhat non verbal after she was told that he was gay(?) or bi.

With extremists in Tennessee trying to declare Islam not a religion, we can see intolerance. Although taken to an extreme fearful place, I can see the root of fear and intolerance about extremists who have used Islam to mask their own intolerance.

We are a bit more clear in understanding fundamentalist (extremists) Christian perspective on GLBT. What I am unclear of is what Islam's general position on GLBT? (not on what a fundamentalist extremist might state but the majority of Muslim's who have a more moderate interpretation of the Qu'ran)
Thanks

w00ki33
Jul 11, 2011, 8:43 AM
Tenni:

I can't speak for Not Lost..., but from what I understand there is no single interpretation of the Koran on that issue, or most issues for that matter. Islam resembles protestant Christianity in that regard - there is no centralized authority. One Imam can completely disagree with another. Some denominations are less tolerant of homosexuality, while others (Sufism?) are open.

But then again, that's from an outsider's perspective. In any case, it's not the black-and-white version that we get from the media.

tenni
Jul 11, 2011, 9:19 AM
Thanks for reminding me WOOki.
Yes, in fact, it may be understood that Islam is even more interpretive than Christianity on a perspective towards non heterosexuality but there seems to be passages in the Christian bible that fundamentalists and definitely extremists use to oppose non heteros. That is why I am asking about moderate Muslims. We do not hear sufficiently enough their voice. I'm wanting to know more about that voice before I can even consider Islam as an ally. I do not consider say the Catholic church as an ally of non heteros and it is more united in its perspective on non heteros but there are segments of protestant Christians that might be considered more open and accepting. Generally, I would not consider most Christians as an ally of non heteros imo. Others may. In fact, it is the oeverarching religion of Christianity that has been a Western mainstream dominate in creating such laws as Sodomy laws and other less tolerant acceptance of non heterosexuality.

The article is about the western world or more specifically the United States but lets generalize to the rest of us in the western world. Both Muslims and non heteros are minorities. The ideal is to see us as allies but is their common ground? There was the slightest possibility in the situation in the article but it was not clear about whether the woman saw commonality with the man or not.

void()
Jul 11, 2011, 9:29 AM
"This year, two notable controversies have been brewing in Tennessee: a proposed bill that would forbid educators from using the word “gay” in the classroom, and a court battle to determine whether or not Islam is a religion."


Fucking ridiculous.

Gay as intended in the dictionary:


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gay

gay
- 7 dictionary results
gay
   [gey] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, noun, adverb
–adjective
1.
having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music.
2.
bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments.
3.
given to or abounding in social or other pleasures: a gay social season.


Islam not a religion? Um more like ignorant American jingoist simply had no fucking clue. Christ on a cross! The bounds and unlimited depths of stupidity do not cease to amaze me.


Oh, sorry I meant: "Ha Ha Yuck Yuck, here hold my beer and watch this!"

And dude, please do stop posting media hype about stupid shit like this. It does no one any real good. It only serves it seems, as fluff or cause to incite anger, provocation of ignorant debate. Maybe you're one of those on the grassy knoll, eh? "Oh look Oswald did it!" And there you stand with the smoking gun yourself. Hey, sorry. Not all of us are that stupid, stoned, sick, drunk, deaf, dumb, or blind. Get over it and yourself, move on.

w00ki33
Jul 11, 2011, 9:34 AM
Thanks for reminding me WOOki.
Yes, in fact, it may be understood that Islam is even more interpretive than Christianity on a perspective towards non heterosexuality but there seems to be passages in the Christian bible that fundamentalists and definitely extremists use to oppose non heteros. That is why I am asking about moderate Muslims. We do not hear sufficiently enough their voice. I'm wanting to know more about that voice before I can even consider Islam as an ally. I do not consider say the Catholic church as an ally of non heteros and it is more united in its perspective on non heteros but there are segments of protestant Christians that might be considered more open and accepting. Generally, I would not consider most Christians as an ally of non heteros imo. Others may. In fact, it is the oeverarching religion of Christianity that has been a Western mainstream dominate in creating such laws as Sodomy laws and other less tolerant acceptance of non heterosexuality.

The article is about the western world or more specifically the United States but lets generalize to the rest of us in the western world. Both Muslims and non heteros are minorities. The ideal is to see us as allies but is their common ground? There was the slightest possibility in the situation in the article but it was not clear about whether the woman saw commonality with the man or not.

My take would be that the commonality would be that each would be protected by a strong separation of church and state.

As for Christianity, it really, really depends. My experience has been that there *are* Christian denominations that are more accepting than others.

NotLostJustWandering
Jul 11, 2011, 1:17 PM
Tenni:
I can't speak for Not Lost..., but from what I understand there is no single interpretation of the Koran on that issue, or most issues for that matter. Islam resembles protestant Christianity in that regard - there is no centralized authority. One Imam can completely disagree with another. Some denominations are less tolerant of homosexuality, while others (Sufism?) are open.

Yes, that's all correct. We can speak of an official Catholic position on a given issue because the Catholic Church is a hierarchical organization with a single authority -- the Pope -- at the top, but no such hierarchy exists within either Sunni or Shia Islam.

Of course, even given the authoritarian nature of the Catholic Church, individual Catholics may hold on their right to make sense of things themselves, and rebel against the Church's official positions. In many times and places, even priests have openly rebelled against Papal authority; the Liberation Theology movement has been led by such priests, and has done a great deal of activist work in open defiance of the greater Church. And of course there are many organizations of queer Catholics despite the official condemnation of homosexuality. The willingness of the individual to make their own interpretations of their religion is something to remember before making blanket statements about any religion.

Another thing to remember is the fluid, evolutionary nature of religion. Any religion that fails to adapt to changing times must be broken by the tide of change and die. Bigoted discussion of religions always assume the hated religion is a static and unchanging thing, and this is as untrue of Islam as it is of any other religion. For the last 30 or 40 years fundamentalism has seized the minds and hearts of an alarming number of Muslims, and thanks to the work of Islamicist terrorists, the Iranian revolution, and the rise of the Taliban, has grabbed the attention of the non-Muslim world and eclipsed the history of Islam.

Again, before decrying Islam as an inherently homophobic religion, one should examine its 14-century history and see if it has oppressed non-straight people at all times and places. The opposite is true: Islam has shown greater acceptance of homosexuality than Christianity and Judaism. There is a rich lore of Islamic poetry and art celebrating romantic love between men or between men and boys. The love of Jelalludin Rumi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi) for Shams-i-Tabrizi inspired his flowering as both mystic and poet, giving not only Islam but all of humanity some its most inspiring paeans to the love between man and God and how this is reflected in romantic love. The Sufi saint Shah Hussein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Hussain) was openly in love with a Hindu boy and their common tomb is a major shrine of pilgrimage.

The Qur'an lacks such specific condemnation of all same-sex behavior along the lines of St. Paul's letter to the Romans 1:26-27 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A26-27&version=KJV) or specific punishments for homosexual behavior as in Leviticus 20:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+20%3A13&version=NIV), which proscribes death. The closest thing in the Qur'an you will find is in Surah 7, ayats 79 & 80:


We also (sent) Lut: he said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? "For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." (Yusuf Ali translation.)

Of course, the context here, as in Genesis, is not consensual sex, but rape, and specifically that of travelers under the hospitality of a townsman. As Shariah came into being in the centuries after Prophet Muhammad's death, the death penalty was proscribed for the "sin of Lut's people" by jurors such as Malik ibn Anas, on the basis of God's punishment of the Sodomites and alleged sayings (hadith) of Prophet Muhammad that those guilty of this crime be put to death. In the increasingly puritanical spirit of legalistic Islam, the "sin of Lut's people" came to be seen as all homosexual behavior and not just rape. Nonetheless, same-sex behavior remained a part of the culture of Arabs and Asians, often quite openly.

Homophobic jurists and translators have tried to portray S. 4:15-16's extremely vague condemnation of "lewdness" as referring to homosexuality, and even translations as respectable as Yusuf Ali's reflect this interpretation.


If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some (other) way.

If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

However, this interpretation depends on rendering a gender-ambiguous term as "two men"; compare other translations, such as Muhammad Asad's:


And punish [thus] both of the guilty parties; but if they both repent and mend their ways, leave them alone: for, behold, God is an acceptor of repentance, a dispenser of grace.

In short, if Christians and Jews have shown the ability to come to terms with the explicitly homophobic passages in the Bible, why assume Muslims can not do the same with the much less clearly homophobic passages of the Qur'an, and the questionably authoritative Hadith and Shariah? History has shown that we can, and that we still do is testified by the existence of such organizations such as Muslims for Progressive Values (http://www.mpvusa.org/), and Imaan (http://www.imaan.org.uk/) a specifically queer Muslim group, and queer-friendly mosques such as Sheikha Fariha's of the Nur Ashki Jerrahi Order of Sufis, whose followers include the founder of Park51, denigrated as the "Ground Zero Mosque."

Finally, for even deeper exploration of this complex topic, I highly recommend Faris Malik's study Born Eunuchs (http://www.well.com/~aquarius/), in which he persuasively argues that the "eunuchs" mentioned so frequently in ancient scriptures were actually homosexual men while women we would call "lesbian" today are remembered as "virgins." He shows how the sexual labels we use today do not apply to ancient views of sexuality, in which a homosexual man was simply not considered male, and the raping of "males" by other "males" as an act of domination and humiliation was quite common (as it still is today in Afghanistan) and was justly condemned by prophets such as Lut and Muhammad. He also argues there was an accepted place for homosexual men in Islamic Arab society in the section Queer Sexual Identity in the Qur'an and Hadith (http://www.well.com/~aquarius/Qurannotes.htm).

jamieknyc
Jul 11, 2011, 2:02 PM
All of that having been said, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Pakistan, Yemen, the Emirates and the Sudan all have the death penalty for homosexuality, as do the Moslem portions of Nigeria.

NotLostJustWandering
Jul 11, 2011, 3:32 PM
All of that having been said, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Pakistan, Yemen, the Emirates and the Sudan all have the death penalty for homosexuality, as do the Moslem portions of Nigeria.

True. All are feeling the sway of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism claims to be a return to an earlier, purer form of Islam, but in fact is a modern movement, and was born as a reaction to the Western control of the Islamic world. Its growth in the post-WW II era was aided by American sabotage of progressive Muslim movements because those movements typically embraced Socialism and looked to the Communist world for allies. In the vaccuum left by the absence of secular, democratic leadership, the people turned instead to fanatical religion, which proved harder for the West to fight.

For example, The Iranian Revolution that brought the fundamentalists to power overthrew the ruthless dictatorship of the Shah, who had been brought to power after England and the United States rigged a coup d'etat overthrowing the democratically elected Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh. The Prime Minister had dared to take his nation's oil supply out of the hands of British Petroleum.

DuckiesDarling
Jul 11, 2011, 10:24 PM
Atiq,

As a northern neighbor of Tennesse, I can pretty say some of those people might have problems with both Muslims and Gays. Unfortunately, uniting the issues will only cause more people to move to the other side. Those that have no issues with religion will have issues with homosexuality and vice versa. Just my two cents :2cents:

w00ki33
Jul 11, 2011, 11:34 PM
Atiq,

As a northern neighbor of Tennesse, I can pretty say some of those people might have problems with both Muslims and Gays. Unfortunately, uniting the issues will only cause more people to move to the other side. Those that have no issues with religion will have issues with homosexuality and vice versa. Just my two cents :2cents:

But I think any social movement will require compromise and alliances that would not usually be considered possible. In the civil rights movement of the 60s, there were Christians, Jews, atheists and at least one gay man (Bayard Rustin).

It may sound corny, but we're better together.

jamieknyc
Jul 12, 2011, 12:52 PM
True. All are feeling the sway of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism claims to be a return to an earlier, purer form of Islam, but in fact is a modern movement, and was born as a reaction to the Western control of the Islamic world. Its growth in the post-WW II era was aided by American sabotage of progressive Muslim movements because those movements typically embraced Socialism and looked to the Communist world for allies. In the vaccuum left by the absence of secular, democratic leadership, the people turned instead to fanatical religion, which proved harder for the West to fight.

For example, The Iranian Revolution that brought the fundamentalists to power overthrew the ruthless dictatorship of the Shah, who had been brought to power after England and the United States rigged a coup d'etat overthrowing the democratically elected Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh. The Prime Minister had dared to take his nation's oil supply out of the hands of British Petroleum.

Even states that are not controlled by fundamentalists have severe penalties for homosexuality, or get rid of gays by extralegal means. Israel gets a constant stream of gay and lesbian refugees from the West Bank, Jordan and Egypt seeking asylum, even though none of those states have a formal death penalty for homosexuality.

NotLostJustWandering
Jul 12, 2011, 1:00 PM
This story was just brought to my attention, though I see the story is 3 years old. Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim-majority nation.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/03/27/islam-039recognizes-homosexuality039.html

Islam 'recognizes homosexuality'
Abdul Khalik, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Fri, 03/28/2008 1:38 AM

Homosexuals and homosexuality are natural and created by God, thus permissible within Islam, a discussion concluded here Thursday.

Moderate Muslim scholars said there were no reasons to reject homosexuals under Islam, and that the condemnation of homosexuals and homosexuality by mainstream ulema and many other Muslims was based on narrow-minded interpretations of Islamic teachings.

Siti Musdah Mulia of the Indonesia Conference of Religions and Peace cited the Koran's al-Hujurat (49:3) that one of the blessings for human beings was that all men and women are equal, regardless of ethnicity, wealth, social positions or even sexual orientation.

"There is no difference between lesbians and nonlesbians. In the eyes of God, people are valued based on their piety," she told the discussion organized by nongovernmental organization Arus Pelangi.

"And talking about piety is God's prerogative to judge," she added.

"The essence of the religion (Islam) is to humanize humans, respect and dignify them."

Musdah said homosexuality was from God and should be considered natural, adding it was not pushed only by passion.

Mata Air magazine managing editor Soffa Ihsan said Islam's acknowledgement of heterogeneity should also include homosexuality.

He said Muslims needed to continue to embrace ijtihad (the process of making a legal decision by independent interpretation of the Koran and the Sunnah) to avoid being stuck in the old paradigm without developing open-minded interpretations.

Another speaker at the discussion, Nurofiah of the Nahdlatul Ulama (NU), said the dominant notion of heterogeneity was a social construction, leading to the banning of homosexuality by the majority.

"Like gender bias or patriarchy, heterogeneity bias is socially constructed. It would be totally different if the ruling group was homosexuals," she said.

Other speakers said the magnificence of Islam was that it could be blended and integrated into local culture.

"In fact, Indonesia's culture has accepted homosexuality. The homosexual group in Bugis-Makassar tradition called Bissu is respected and given a high position in the kingdom.

"Also, we know that in Ponorogo (East Java) there has been acknowledgement of homosexuality," Arus Pelangi head Rido Triawan said.

Condemnation of homosexuality was voiced by two conservative Muslim groups, the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) and Hizbut Thahir Indonesia (HTI).

"It's a sin. We will not consider homosexuals an enemy, but we will make them aware that what they are doing is wrong," MUI deputy chairman Amir Syarifuddin said.

Rokhmat, of the hardline HTI, several times asked homosexual participants in attendance to repent and force themselves to gradually return to the right path.

tenni
Jul 12, 2011, 2:27 PM
"Like gender bias or patriarchy, heterogeneity bias is socially constructed. It would be totally different if the ruling group was homosexuals," she said."


Thanks for the posting Atiq

I would say that if such viewpoint was more universally held it might be interesting. This statement does show a connection between minorities wherever they are and possible reason to try to understand the oppression of other minorities. In countries where Islam is the majority religious belief that would create the societal bias. In countries where one sexuality is the dominate force that creates the societal bias. As I understand this thread, the country (or societies) in question are not in the mid east but Tennessee or the Western countries if generalized where Islam and bisexuality are a minority that is oppressed and misunderstood by the majority group. Posting comments about Iran, Saudia Arabia etc. are really off topic.

NotLost's post shows that there is diverse perspectives on homosexuality & bisexuality(although invisible in the statement much like bi invisibility here) within Islam.

w00ki33
Jul 12, 2011, 5:04 PM
Even states that are not controlled by fundamentalists have severe penalties for homosexuality, or get rid of gays by extralegal means. Israel gets a constant stream of gay and lesbian refugees from the West Bank, Jordan and Egypt seeking asylum, even though none of those states have a formal death penalty for homosexuality.

What does any of this have to do with Muslims living in the US?

I would wonder how many of the refugees would still consider themselves Muslim. If you asked them whether they felt the need to give up their religion because of their sexuality, my guess (again, only my guess) is that most would disagree.

azirish
Jul 12, 2011, 7:27 PM
Do you realize that the vast majority upwards of 90% plus percent of all mosques are founded and funded in both the US & Canada by the Saudi Royal family?


What does any of this have to do with Muslims living in the US?

I would wonder how many of the refugees would still consider themselves Muslim. If you asked them whether they felt the need to give up their religion because of their sexuality, my guess (again, only my guess) is that most would disagree.

NotLostJustWandering
Jul 12, 2011, 8:53 PM
As I understand this thread, the country (or societies) in question are not in the mid east but Tennessee or the Western countries if generalized where Islam and bisexuality are a minority that is oppressed and misunderstood by the majority group. Posting comments about Iran, Saudia Arabia etc. are really off topic.

NotLost's post shows that there is diverse perspectives on homosexuality & bisexuality(although invisible in the statement much like bi invisibility here) within Islam.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of making the former point. I was making the latter point in the hopes of breaking through the perception of Islam as a monolith, which gets in the way of understanding Muslims as people.

Islamophobia notwithstanding, the New World is a great place to be a Muslim. In the Muslim world, the religion has become enveloped by local tradition as well as the intellectual poverty that ensues from material poverty on a societal level. Here Muslims are faced with cultures radically different from those of their countries of origin, and wherever dialogue is allowed to happen, so may questioning of ones beliefs and values. This may happen either with members of the host society or with Muslims from other countries where the religion is practiced differently. An openminded exploration of the faith is particularly evident in the second generation. Of course, where Islamophobia reigns, the opposite can happen; the defensiveness of siege mentality sets in and people cling to their traditions as refuge.

Traveling and living in the Middle East, I gained a newfound appreciation of what a blessing it is to be an American Muslim. I came to see that religions function worst when practiced by the majority of society. It was clear to see, for example, that during Ramadan, people's concern for how they were seen by their peers influenced their decisions to observe the fast, or dodge it by breaking it secretly or sleeping the day away. It meant a lot more to me to fast here, where all around me people were eating and drinking; my sacrifice was about my relationship with God and nothing more.

I expect in the future, history will mark this time of unprecedented emigration of Muslims to the New World as an Islamic Renaissance, but I do hope we always remain a minority here.

void()
Jul 13, 2011, 6:42 AM
"In the Muslim world, the religion has become enveloped by local tradition as well as the intellectual poverty that ensues from material poverty on a societal level."

I read this on two different levels and see a possible third looming.


First level;

"If you don't have lots of stuff you aren't smart. You need stuff to be smart. Muslims got lots of stuff. Muslims must be geniuses. Muslims are superior to all."

Second level;

"If you don't have lots of stuff, a Muslim for example, you can not speak about intellect or the Muslim faith. Having stuff makes you wealthy. Muslims have lots of stuff. Muslims are billionaires. Muslims are superior to all."

Now granted, I don't have a mansion or a dozen new cars. I am still able to read well. So, do help me truly understand what you are in fact saying. Write and articulate well. Leave no room, express meaning through clarity. Because, what I read seems to paint you and Muslims in general in a very negative color. From experience, I know Muslims are not monsters nor saints. Your imagery posted here seems biased at best, propaganda at worst.

As I said, there is a third view. It expresses a completely different color. What it says is that due to lack of stuff, Muslims grew spiritually and feel enlightened. Muslims seek to share this wealth of spirituality with the world, yet face many adversities still.

This portrait while potentially laced with an undercurrent of asserted superiority, reads and appears far more diplomatic, and it sets a hook so to speak. It invites a reader to continue reading about the faith. They may read more of your writing, or find other Muslim related literature. But if what you present arrogantly pronounces, "Muslims are superior to all", then do not blame others if they rise up to strike Muslims down.

"All mankind is created equal." This is something I believe, not merely as an American. It is a belief in an ideal, which predates America by at least one hundred years or better. So far, I have not found a person able to put trousers on, both legs at a time. That is to say, we all need to put our pants on the same way, one leg at a time. And yes, I'm willing to accept new ideas. To have my ideas and beliefs challenged. Are you trying? If so, try harder.

When you do seek to challenge my beliefs or present new ideas, come armed with facts. No, do not bring me sources of reference. I want facts, something you know from experience and are able to convey, and it still holds 'true' to me. Here's an example fact to help you get started.

"Human beings are animals. Look at what some mothers subject their children to witness nowadays. Murder on television, gods know what on the Internet and children have free reign without parental guidance. Is it any wonder we are not rabid bears?"

It is a fact on various levels. Human beings are animals. We may deny it but it still remains 'true' across the board. Use such facts and present new ideas, challenges to my beliefs. Give the mind a steak to gnaw on instead of merely walking up and slapping it on the face. You keep slapping and then bitch and whine when you get smacked back. "An eye for an eye makes a world full of the blind." Use a gentle stream, not a sledge hammer. The work and result are the same.